7.65x53?

[flaco]

 

Whoa, baby.

 

I've just returned from a week in Southern Michigan, wrenching with the gearheads.

 

We were working on vintage raceboats, prepping them for action photographs.

 

These boats all have different engines, and it was an education to watch the real gearheads diagnose the problems--the only one that stumped us (them) was a supercharged Harry Miller (Indy fans will know Miller) four--and fix 'em. In the end, we couldn't make it work. Given time, I'm certain the boys would have.

 

Fuel pressure problems, probably the regulator.

 

Anyway, I guess I have to mention some gun stuff--and I'm truly glad to be back to my projects, although I now have two books to write--so I thought I'd ask about the 7.65 Mauser cartridge.

 

I liked the riffs above, on Pedestal's thread, and am glad to see bilurey posting. He always seems knowledgeable.

 

I currently have a roughed out blank, I think it's black walnut (could be Claro, but it's very heavy) that's sort of, well, blond. A real light golden color. I wet it, and some weird figure shows, not just fiddleback, and a little nice grain.

 

I don't really have a receiver yet. Although I have some '09 bottom metal.

 

I want to put a red recoil pad on this puppy, and probably another Lyman aperture sight.

 

My problem is, Lothar Walther doesn't make a 7.65 in the article 722, which is what I'm looking for. So I'm looking at over $300 for a custom LW barrel.

 

I'm not certain the wood justifies this kind of investment.

 

So I'm looking for suggestions.

 

flaco

 

Also, I have vertigo.

 

This usually isn't too much of a problem, although I got a little queasy driving back and forth over some really high bridges to Canada this summer.

 

LOL.

 

Anyway, the boss asks if I want to photograph boats from a helicopter, and... how can you turn down an offer like that?

 

We saddled up, and I got some amazing photographs of two Gold Cup winners from the 1920s.

 

I was nervous at first, but sheesh, I love making photographs, and from now on hanging my *ss out of helicopters and making boat photographs is the most (legal) fun I've ever had.

 

All else pales.

 

What a blast.

 

Image is a Southern Michigan doe that came down to the lake shore for a drink. I photographed her from a boat, and she didn't quite know what to make of that. Are deer really stupid?

 

Lots of them tried to run in front of the car in Southern Michigan.

[roscoedoh]

Flaco,

 

I don't know where you're looking to take this project, but based on finished work of yours I have seen previously, I'd say your tendency is to do it up professionally, from scratch, sparring no expense.

 

That said however, if you're not looking to go too elaborate with a project based on the 7.65x53, you could look around and find a used 7.65 take-off that has a good bore. I have seen several for sale in various places that looked like they still had some life left in them and cost far less than $300. Then I suppose you could get someone with a lathe to do a bit of profiling and polishing. It'd have to be a friend of yours as I'm sure that could get expensive.

 

Or, you could look around and try and come up with a .311" barrel and have a friend chamber and thread it for you. Barrels can be had a reasonable cost - especially if you have a gunsmith order it for you.

 

The crux of the matter here is the cost of the work you may have to hire to get the barrel you want. My friend that does my gunsmithing gives me a discount, but when you start looking into profiling, polishing, chambering, etc., $300 for a barrel may end up being reasonable after all. That is, if you don't mind the stepped taper of a Mauser barrel.

 

As to the receiver, you might look around and try and find a VZ-24 that's had the crest ground off. They still need some truing and stoning, etc., but at least you won't have a crest of some type to contend with. I have one and love it. Z, I believe likes them as well. Just a little food for thought.

 

----Or------

 

Since the wood is in question and is the reason you are thinking against going all out on this project, sell your current blank and upgrade it to something befitting a $300 barrel.

 

The question you must really ask yourself is what do you really want and where do you want to go with this project?

 

Just my $.02.

 

I'm glad you had fun with the boats! I haven't been on the water in years. Nice deer to by the way. You're an excellent photographer.

 

Jason

 

 

[Doble Troble]

flaco,

 

I think Jason has good advice. If you don't mind military steps, and can find one in good shape, I don't think there's much to improve on the quality of a 1909 take off. Personally, I think the steps look right on a Mauser especially with open sights and might work well with the sharp edges you'll produce on the stock. They're good barrels made with care. The few I've had impress me as much as the Swedes. If the one you sent me (and THANK YOU!) is long enough for what you have in mind I'll polish her up, recrown and send her right back. It really doesn't take too much to pretty them up between centers. Just let me know. It'll probably be spring before I use it myself. If you have another you'd like to have polished, send it my way.

 

Regarding stupid deer: all the ones I've eaten were. I've heard that old bucks can be smart, but I haven't had the opportunity to eat one yet. I don't expect that I will. I don't have much left in the freezer now so the first deer stupid enough to appear within range is going down .

[AzRednek]

My problem is, Lothar Walther doesn't make a 7.65 in the article 722, which is what I'm looking for. So I'm looking at over $300 for a custom LW barrel.

 

4625[/snapback]

 

If you're considering spending that kind of money check with Mcgowen. You can buy a barrel with 765 bore as a blank or spend more for contouring, short chambered etc. If your serious let me know and I'll go through my junk pile and find his catalog and get the prices. 300 seems high to me unless they are installing, chambering, test fire etc.

 

As far as stupid deer, I only see them off season. Saw a roadkill buck this past weekend on the way to a paintball tournament. Ironic that he layed within a few feet of a "Watch for Elk" highway sign.

[flaco]

Thanks, Gentlemen-

 

As usual, I didn't express myself all that well.

 

The real question is... Is the 7.65x53 cartridge superior enough to pay an extra hundred and change (if not more) rather than getting a similar chambering that Lothar Walther sells pret a porter.

 

I'm just enough of a contrarian to like a cartridge that is no longer in favor, but has an attractive, if not romantic, history.

 

And it's a Mauser.

 

I spent some time yesterday with a smith who builds target rifles for a living, and he scoffed at the difference. To him, the 7.65 is the same as a 30-06, or a 308. Just another generic cartridge.

 

And.. there isn't much bullet selection for this cartridge. Although the 150 grainer sounds fine to me. If a little short.

 

Not to mention.... Jason got it right. I like building rifles that emulate custom guns.

 

The new blank was given to me, and had been gathering dust in the studio for months. It had some flaws, and I just wanted to see if there was a stock in there.

 

There was, and a fairly pretty one, but as Chic Worthing advises, it's best to spend as much as you can on your blank, as it can't be replaced.

 

For me, the temptation is to go all out on these puppies, fiscal responsibility to the wind. I'm spending like a Republican.

 

And sheesh, DT. Wouldn't think of it. I have another carbine, with a nice barrel, although not that nice a receiver. I appreciate your offer.

 

Here's another issue: I love that barrel band front sight mount, but would like to use one with a globe sight. I have an '09 long rifle with a Lyman aperture and a globe mounted in the original Mauser band sight, and even I can shoot with that combination.

 

I've looked, and it seems like NECG has the only barrel band front sight mount. But you're limited to their sights. Which is fine, but I want a globe.

 

Does anyone know of another manufacturer of barrel band front sight mounts? One that will accept sights by different makers? Or would it be possible to mill the NECG so a generic front sight would fit?

 

Thanks,

 

flaco

 

 

[Doble Troble]

fyi were going with a front band sight I'd pick one out of the dusty box in the shop of Turk take offs. They aren't elegant, but cheaper than NECG, and that's probably why I like them. It doesn't seem like there's much of a market for open sights these days and so a good take-off is a find.

 

The great thing about dovetails is they're easy to make/modify with a triangular file with one side ground safe. With a bit of filing, any oversized dovetail can be made to go into any undersized slot.

[AzRednek]

The real question is... Is the 7.65x53 cartridge superior enough to pay an extra hundred and change (if not more) rather than getting a similar chambering that Lothar Walther sells pret a porter.

4667[/snapback]

 

It is really a no-brainer, if you really want a 765 go for it, it will be worth every extra dime you spend on it. "Because I want one" makes it the most logical choice. Don't over look the .312 Hornady round nose slug that weighs apx 170-175 grs, its the most accurate I've ever shot out of a 765 Argie, 7.7 Jap and 303 Brit. May be different though with a sporting barrel with a different twist rate than the mil-surps.

 

[z1r]

Practically speaking, the 7.65x53 is midway between the .308 and .30-06 in terms of power. Factory loads usually being nearly equal to or slightly less than the .308. Handloads will put it square in the middle. The sensible thing would be to pick the .30-06 as it is still cheap to feed it factory ammo, and is the ballistic champ of this crowd. You hit on a good point in that there is a better selction of bullets available in .308 vs .311 and there is plethora of factory loads for either the .308 or the .30-06. Not so the 7.65, but, good factory ammo can be had by Norma, Prvi Partizan, Grafs, & Hornady and the slimmer selection of bullets is at least a good one. Bullet selection not being so important if you don't hunt.

 

Now, nostalgia & romantic ideas have a way of crowding out practicallity. In that case, what's a mere $100 extra to build in the caliber you want to get exactly what you want? If it's not what you want, why build it. I'd rather have one rifle exactly as I wanted it than twenty run of the mill versions.

 

I've been amassing a smallish Sporting Mauser collection of metric calibers lately. Just added the 9.3x57 to the stable including the 6.5x55, 7x57, 7.65x53, 8x57, 8x68S and 9.3x62. The US cartridge sporting mausers include the 6mm rem (.244 rem), .270 Win, .308 Win, .30-06, and .338-06.

 

The one rifle I wouldn't want to be without is a .30-06. I can't wait untill mine is done.

[Clemson]

I side with Z1r on this one. The 30-06, when finished in 2006, would provide you with a 100 year anniversary edition of a true classic. Mauser chambered a bunch of rifles in 30-06, by the way.

 

The 7.65 comes with its own set of issues, not the least of which is finding reamers and headspace gauges.

 

With the '06, you would get to learn the joys of lengthening the magazine, too!

 

Clemson

[z1r]

With the '06, you would get to learn the joys of lengthening the magazine, too!

 

Clemson

4713[/snapback]

 

Oh how true. Any REAL gunbuilder must learn this one sooner or later, lol.

 

Good one Clemson!

 

Speaking of the 100 year anniversary, I saw a BMG in .30-06 today and a BAR yesterday, all being photographed for upcoming articles on the .30-06. I was told I missed out on viewing a very rare '03 variant with a retractable bayonet and the nicest Garand the photographer has ever seen.

 

Long live the .30-06! Mine may be finished in '06, maybe a I should incorporate something that marks the anniversary? Something subtle maybe engraved.