Vz-24 Conversion To 45-70

[idoono]

Just got a VZ-24 Mauser and am thinking of converting it to 45-70. Is this possible or am I opening a can of worms?

 

idoono

[724wd]

this is usually done on the siamese mauser actions. they come with a trigger guard/mag box that is slanted rearward, allowing the rimmed shells to stack correctly, without the rims getting tangled up. there may be a way to adapt this mag box to your VZ, though i don't know that for sure. you will also have to deal with the feed rails, opening them up for the greater diameter and rimmed 45/70 round. extraction will have to be addressed, as well as the diameter of the bolt face.

[sonic1]

a 450 marlin would be easier..... if easy is the right word

[idoono]

Thanks guys....that's what I needed to know.

 

idoono

[724wd]

i don't want to turn you off of the idea. if you want a 45/70 on a VZ, i'm sure it can be done. if you choose not to do it yourself, it will probably be expensive, but anything is possible. really, any caliber other than what the action was designed for might or will require some work to get it to work in your VZ. if you stick with a caliber with the same head size, it may feed great, might need some work. if you want something else, well, then you've got a bit of work ahead of you. if you feel up to the challenge, it's a lot of fun! and we're here to help. there's some great and very talented guys here on the board.

[Jimro]

Why not a 458 Win Mag? Mild handloads do everything a 450 Marlin or 45-70 will do and you can neck up most of the common cartridges, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag and trim to length.

 

Jimro

[gun nutty]

458 American (.458 X 2 inch). Specifically designed to duplicate the 45/70 in a bolt action.

[Jimro]

Since it's a straight wall belted case you can fire 458 American out of a 458 Win Mag chamber, the same way you can fire 458 Win Mag through a 458 Lott chamber.

 

Jimro

[gun nutty]

Since it's a straight wall belted case you can fire 458 American out of a 458 Win Mag chamber, the same way you can fire 458 Win Mag through a 458 Lott chamber.

 

Jimro

 

I think that the Lott dimensionally takes the 458 Win into account with a phantom shoulder in the chamber. Neither the .458 Win or American are "straight-walled"; both taper. That's what the .470 Capstick is for. That's about as close to straight as straight can get.

 

I'd be hesitant to try the American in the Win chamber. I'd rather just download the Win and be done with it.

 

The beauty of the American is that it should feed well enough through an unaltered Mauser magazine. The Win will need the feed ramp and fore of the magazine altered.

[gun nutty]

I'll correct myself on this. There is no phantom shoulder on the Lott case; according to dimensional data, it tapers from 0.513 inches, just forward of the case belt, to 0.480 inches at the case mouth. This data can be found at:

 

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

 

According to Wikipedia and the Reloader's Nest, the 458 Win CAN be safetly fired in the Lott chamber.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_Lott

 

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=158

 

I cannot whether these references are independent or "circular" in sourcing; but the apparent attitude is that there is compatibility.

[Sailormilan2]

Well, both cases(458 Lott and 458 Win Mag) headspace on the belted rim, that is what it is there for. So, firing a 458 WM in a 458 Lott chamber would be like shooting a 38 special cartridge in a 357 mag caliber revolver.

 

If the OP really wants to make a 45-70 on a Mauser, and if he can't find a Siamese Mauser to use, a Siamese trigger housing(magazine) should be a direct bolt up to a Yugo M24/47/48 action. They are both Intermediate length actions. I have actualy gotten a M48 bolt to work in a Siamese action. However, there are very few of those triggerhousings around, and even fewer with the floorplates attached.

[donmarkey]

Well, both cases(458 Lott and 458 Win Mag) headspace on the belted rim, that is what it is there for. So, firing a 458 WM in a 458 Lott chamber would be like shooting a 38 special cartridge in a 357 mag caliber revolver.

 

If the OP really wants to make a 45-70 on a Mauser, and if he can't find a Siamese Mauser to use, a Siamese trigger housing(magazine) should be a direct bolt up to a Yugo M24/47/48 action. They are both Intermediate length actions. I have actualy gotten a M48 bolt to work in a Siamese action. However, there are very few of those triggerhousings around, and even fewer with the floorplates attached.

 

Don't worry about the floorplate, a straddle ploorplate from PME fits perfectly after cutting it down. Makes it easy to convert to hinged.

Don

[gun nutty]

Well, both cases(458 Lott and 458 Win Mag) headspace on the belted rim, that is what it is there for. So, firing a 458 WM in a 458 Lott chamber would be like shooting a 38 special cartridge in a 357 mag caliber revolver.

 

No, the .357 Magnum and .38 Special are straight-walled cases; the 458 Win/Lott are still tapered.

 

Using the "headspace on the belt" argument, you should be able to fire the .300 Winchester Magnum and .308 Norma Magnum in a .300 Weatherby chamber. Of course, that's neither true nor safe.

 

I believe the reason that the Win can be fired in the Lott chamber is because although the Lott case is longer, it's only slightly so; the case, even though shorter, is still mostly supported. Were it a greater difference in overall length (say 0.500"), this wouldn't be the case.

[Sailormilan2]

I remember seeing a rechambered Mark X on Gunbroker, chambered in 458 Lott. Which is way too long for the magazine. But, the magazine was unmodified, meaning it would only hold 458 WM.

308 Norma Mag can be fired in 300 WM. I've fired a 308 Win round out of a 30-06 rifle. Sort of a had to situation. My kids loaded a 8 rd en bloc of 308 for my Tanker Garand in a standard 30-06 Garand. Wider shoulder of the 308 jammed in the chamber and I couldn't get the round out. Safely fired. Makes the weirdest case, almost like a rimless 444.