gregaba Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hi I was reading on a site last night when a poster stated he had a 1893 Mauser and was shooting it with a 308 cal. barrel. He also stated he had build several rifles with a 7.62, 308 and other larger then recomended bore sizes for the 1893 and over years of shooting had never had a problem. My question is has anyone ever seen a failure with one of these actions? I know everyone has heard of failures but has anyone actually seen one?. Thanks Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacrat Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 My question is has anyone ever seen a failure with one of these actions? I know everyone has heard of failures but has anyone actually seen one?. No, I have not. Nor do I want to. SAAMI pressure specs for 7x57 mauser is 51,000 psi. For .308 Win. it is 62,000 psi. That alone is enough to keep me from going that route. The 1893 was originally designed around the 7x57 not the higher pressure .308. Small ring Mausers like the 93 have poor gas handling capabilities. When Mauser went with higher pressure cartridges Paul came up with the 1898 with its larger reciever ring, and barrel threads. Also incorporated were much improved gas handling capabilities in case of blown primers or case failure. The Spanish Government Arsenal {CETME} rechambered a lot of their small ring mausers to the 7.62 CETME cartridge which is dimensionally same as 7.62 NATO and .308 Win as a quik fix when they became part of NATO. But did not intend them to be fired with the higher pressure cartridges because they came out with their own cartridge loading for use in these rifles named the 7.62 CETME. It was loaded to the same pressure levels as the previous chambering of 46,000 CUP/51,000 PSI. From a safety standpoint it is like Skunk Slapping and Naked Porcupine Wrestling. I just don't think it worth the risk. JM2c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustvyper Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Let me put on my mechanical engineering hat here & chime in. When we talk about how much pressure a receiver can withstand, we're talking about worst case scenarios where you have a case-head failure on the round & all of a sudden you flood the action with all the pressure that was meant to blow out the correct direction of the barrel. When people say they've never had a problem, that's because they've never had a problem. With modern ammunition & a modern barrel (which I assume they used when they changed the caliber) the chance of a catastrophic failure is probably much smaller than dying in a car wreck, however, if you DID have a failure, the action will not handle it well. The small ring doesn't have the lug strength or a blast shield on the shroud to vent the escaping gasses away from the shooter's face. I've seen a picture of a failure on M96 swede & the entire side of the action splt. Worst case, you could have lug failure on the bolt & have the bolt blow back & impale you in the head. Now, can you make the small ring safe for high pressure? No reason you can't. Firstly, install an FN style aftermarket shroud with shield like the 98 has. Next, look at any modern action & you'll notice they have a small hole(s) drilled to vent gas away from the shooter. The goal of a properly drilled vent is to keep the pressure number well below the action's rated specs so it never has a chance to fail. But like what was already mentioned, there are still plenty of 98s around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregaba Posted January 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hi Thanks for the answers. I wasn't thinking of going that route I was just wondering if anyone had seen a blow up. On the M-14 forum site they have a video of a girl shooting a M-1 and it blows up. Impressive, and she was lucky as she didn't get hurt in the explosion. Looked like she set off a garnade in her hand. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiris Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 It doesn't make sense to push the envelope on pre-98 metallurgy, with so many great cartridges that fit the criteria of these small rings. The 6.5x55 Swede, the 7mm Mauser and the 8mm Mauser all fit the class of cartridges that works well in the pre-98 actions. 250 Savage, 257 Roberts and 300 Savage also work when used in their SAAMI spec. There's little reason to tempt fate by having a cartridge who's SAAMI spec exceeds the design limits of the action. It's just common sense. As mentioned, there are too many good M98 actions around that work better for the higher pressure rounds. Spiris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken98k Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I share the concerns of the previous posters however, Several of the major milsurp dealers have been selling .308 spanish mausers for several years now with no ill effects. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating this conversion, just saying there are thousands of them in use. https://www.samcoglobal.com/1-1916.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff H Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 ............The goal of a properly drilled vent is to keep the pressure number well below the action's rated specs so it never has a chance to fail. But like what was already mentioned, there are still plenty of 98s around. Two things to consider: 1) diverting esaping gas from the shooter's face in the event of a failed cartridge case, which is probably less likely today with cartridge brass manufacturing standards being what they are, is where the venting system probably plays its most important role. Soldiers were not reloading their cartridges, so incipient case head separation was not an issue - failure of new (not necessarily so well made) brass was. One of the Mauser brothers, Paul, I believe, lost an eye himself to this particular failure. Diverting the gas, as is done in the '98 can be done in pre '98s and I have seen some done properly and some done improperly. It doesn't do a lot of good to vent the reciever ring and not the bolt. 2) a "blow-up" is sort of a vague description of a failure, but let's consider what could happen if an over pressure (as it would pertain to the action coming apart and not the brass) were to occur. First, it does not necessarily take ONE round to cause the failure. Many significantly over-pressure rounds, over time, will cause damage over time. Who's holding the rifle if/when it lets go is anyone's guess. Will it be you, one of your kids, a buddy, the guy you sell it to, the guy who buys it from him? Diverting escaping gas is one thing, while the forces imposed on the bolt and reciever is another. The gas venting system will not reduce the affects of over-pressure beating the action and lugs up over time and may keep some of the gas and debris out of one's face if the action comes apart, but it will not help at all with the shrapnel that does not fit through the firing pin hole. My own personal concern with using a pre '98 for anything other than the lower pressure cartridges would be point two (above). Modern brass seems to address a lot of what happens in point one. Could the ears eventually shear off the bolt? I don't know and I don't intend to find out first-hand, but the people who made these rifles over a hundred years ago recognized a need for more strength as cartridge pressures began to be increased. I also think it is terribly irresponsible of anyone selling a rifle chambered for 7.62 CETME td advertise it as a .308 Winchester, regardless of the pressure differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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