8Mm Accuracy

[Paul Stuart]

Hey guys I know its a stupid question but Ive been told the 8mm drops like a rock. Ive also heard its a great round. Im not made of money and I also have three kids that insist on eatin every day so if I can make a accurate hunting rifle and not hafta rebarrel that would be awesome. What are the real world longrange capabilities of the 8mm with a good handload.The bore is bright and shiny thanks to a lot of cleaning on my part. I know someone here has more experience with em than the people that Ive been talkin to.

 

 

Thanks In Advance

Paul S

[Clemson]

This table is for RWS ammunition (which is not underloaded). In it, 8x57 compares favorably to 30-06.

 

http://www.rws-munition.de/en/rifle_cartridges/ballistic_data.htm?navid=10

 

Clemson

[Paul Stuart]

Thanks for the link!!! Im surprised how the 8mm was so much more versital than the other caliburs I was lookin at!!!!

[8uck5nort]

Here is the way I look at it cause I'm a newbie to both the shooting and reloading. I've only been doing it for about a year. So I am by no means even remotely an expert, but whenever I hear someone poopoo an early 20th century military round I get real suspicious of how much they really know...

 

If you think about the origins of the round itself, it was developed by, and at the time of its developement, one of the finest militaries in the world. The Germans probably put 10's of thousands of man hours in the develpement and testing of this round for the primary purpose of killing at a median range of 300 meters and still be very effective in killing an ememy combatant unsing massed fire at ranges of a 1000 meters or farther. Add to that the thousands of man hours by enthusiest of the handloading world lending their mixtures to the cartridge and you can probably do things with this class of bullets/cartridges the Germans even thought impossible.

 

Most of the 30 caliber class of bullets/cartridges developed by all the major powers that we use today came out of two world wars and are probably the most time tested cartridges of all time. The ones that truley sucked have long since disappeared or are so rare you can't afford to shoot them even unsing handloaded stuff. The French Lebel(?) comes to mind, no suprise there. The only reason I can think of why the 8mm is not as popular as the 30-06 is the Germans lost. Now that I think about it, we only see the rise of smaller caliber rounds during the Cold War era as semi-auto and auto weapons became the military norm, and as WW2 forshadowed, most of the battles for the forseeable future will be fought in urban environments and not with massed infantry in trenches over open terrain.

 

Ok, enough with the history lesson/debate. It's just my opinion and I'm a history nut.

 

Any of the early 20th century military rounds will kill anything walking North America at any hunting range most of us newbies will ever encounter.

 

.303

.308/30-06

.323

7.62x54R

 

All extensively field tested and approved!

[gun nutty]

I don't take much stock in claims that a round must be better because it's "flatter".

 

Most rimless, bottle-necked cartridges used for hunting today are more than adequate for the ACTUAL ranges that hunters will use them in. Most hunters don't make, and would probably be unable to make, 400 to 500 yard shots.

 

The lowly .308 Winchester has amassed an incredible record of long range kills against enemy targets in combat and police roles. I would consider the 8mm Mauser, with proper loads, easily capable of exceeding the killing potential of the .308 in an accurate rifle.

 

A 196 grain FMJ bullet pulled from a loaded 8mm case is simply awe-inspiring.

[Brenden]

IMHO, an 8mm mauser is the most versitle and prob. one of the best rounds ever produced. As for drop, well you get that with any gun. Look at the 30-30. It drops like throwing a car from a bridge. I hate 30-30's because of that slow moving chunk of lead they throw and how they drop a foot at 200 yards, untill I bought one this summer. That slow moving "rainbow" gun has become one of my favorite rounds and has smacked a few deer as well. 8mm is the same, its a great cal and one that deserves more respect. Like my dad always told me, when i talked about how flat my 7mm was, he reminded me that most shots are within 100 yards. Hes right, and a 22 mag would suffice at that distance. You've got a hell of a round.

 

Brenden

[lemski4]

If the throat need cleaned up you might consider rechambering to 8mm-06 and gain a little more umph out of it. Still cheaper than rebarreling it. How does it shoot now?

[Guest Jimro]

196 gr .323 bullet at 2550 fps is VERY similar to 175 gr .308 at 2550 fps, which is our current M118lr sniper load for the US Army.

 

It has a "rainbow trajectory" as well, but accuracy is all about consistency. So if you pull apart surplus ammo, sort it by weight, reload with a good powder, you can expect good accuracy.

 

Or you can spend the money on 8mm 200 gr SMK's and load up from scratch. Either way, you'll wring the most performance out of a rifle by handloading your own ammunition.

 

Jimro

[Paul Stuart]

It shoots pretty good now but I havent got a scope on it yet and Im sure I will be able to tell better after its scoped up. Right now it has a lyman peep sight on it and at 40 yards I was getting a 1 inch group without sandbags (I used a portable shooting bench). Im just not sure what it will do at 200 yards.

[Bob58]

Whenever I think about re-barreling one of my 8x57's (a broad and deep assortment of Husqvarna 640 beaters with excellent barrels) I read the following article. In fact I've been wanting Clemson to rebarrel one for me to 257 Roberts for a couple years now but can't seem to bring myself to violate one.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/forgotten_8x57.htm

[Clemson]

Heck, Bob, the 257 won't beat you up nearly as much as that 8x57!!

 

Clemson

[roscoedoh]

The 8x57JS is probably the most highly under-rated cartridge out there. Its only shortcoming is that it's not a 30 caliber. You can kill virtually anything with an accurate 8mm and with the proper bullet, an 8mm will reach as far out as you want it to. There is no reason to fret over its ballistics.

[Paul Stuart]

I appreciate the info guys. I think I will hold off on rebarreling till I get it scoped up and try some 100 yrd groups. But all in all from the stats and the article it sounds like it will be a good calibur for my needs. The recoil is one thing I was hopin to get rid of but Im a big boy and I stand up to pee nowadays so thats not a real big deal. Once again you guys are awesome and thanks for the info

 

Paul S

[724wd]

a good recoil pad will remove that unwanted recoil!

[Bob58]

Heck, Bob, the 257 won't beat you up nearly as much as that 8x57!!

 

Clemson

 

 

True. But can't say you're not impartial in the matter. I'm saving up my money.

[pacrat]

Another consideration in the rainbow trajectory of domestic factory ammo is that it is very anemic and no where close to being loaded to the full potential of the 8x57. US ammo makers probably have as many lawyers on staff as ballisticians. That old .318 bore cloud has a lot to do with it in this litigious society we are forced to live in.

 

JM2C

[Sailormilan2]

196 gr .323 bullet at 2550 fps is VERY similar to 175 gr .308 at 2550 fps, which is our current M118lr sniper load for the US Army.

 

It has a "rainbow trajectory" as well, but accuracy is all about consistency. So if you pull apart surplus ammo, sort it by weight, reload with a good powder, you can expect good accuracy.

 

Or you can spend the money on 8mm 200 gr SMK's and load up from scratch. Either way, you'll wring the most performance out of a rifle by handloading your own ammunition.

 

Jimro

 

The 196 gr 8mm WW2 German load is vastly superior to the 30-06 M2 Ball load that the US military used. At ranges past 500 yds, that is. The heavier, boat tailed 8mm bullet retained velocity and energy much better at long range. The M2 Ball load lost velocity too fast. One of the reasons the GIs liked to use the heavier 165 gr AP bullets. Superior downrange accuracy and performance.

German tactics were revolved around the machine gun(the heavier bullet was ideal for this), US tactics revolved around the rifleman.

[Paul Stuart]

Well I just dropped the old warhorse off at the gunsmith to have it drilled and tapped for a scope, new butter knife bolt handle installed, and a model 70 style safety installed!!!!! Im pretty excited about it. Thanks to you guys I decided to keep the 8mm barrel. I did have him to make sure the head space was correct and bolt face was in good order. My dad is a hard core Model 70 man and my wife dont give a crap about it so you guys are the only people I have to tell about it. LOL Now I cant wait to get it back and do my best to burn the rifling out of it!!!

[rdm1962]

Another consideration in the rainbow trajectory of domestic factory ammo is that it is very anemic and no where close to being loaded to the full potential of the 8x57. US ammo makers probably have as many lawyers on staff as ballisticians. That old .318 bore cloud has a lot to do with it in this litigious society we are forced to live in.

 

JM2C

I have been reloading for 20 years and still don't consider myself an expert. Part of the issue with older cartriges is all the old firearms out there that are still being used. The 30-30, 7x57,8x57,ect... can be safely handloaded to higher pressures than factory ammo. Start off at 10% to 15% more below the max load. Work up in 1/2 grain incraments. Do test loads of 5 rounds at each weight. Look for sighns of pressure spikes. You should be abele to find a load that your rifle likes and gives you the range you want.

Ralph

[Guest karlunity]

For target practice, try 13 grains of "red dot" with any 8MM round 150 grain to 220 grain.

 

Set the sight for 400 meters at 100 meters.

 

You can get MOA groups (on a good day) and shoot all day with little recoil and very low cost.

 

Karl

[Dr.Hess]

About 1" at 40 yards is right around 2 MOA. For an off the rack rifle, that's pretty good. Carlos Hathcock's M70 would only do 2 MOA and he didn't have any trouble capping commies with it.

[Vladymere]

Here is what my Kar.98a with the original 8x57MM military barrel, sporterized between wars, can do at 100 yards off the bench with the right handloads. This is a five shot group I can cover with a half dollar. The top hole in the group is from three rounds.

 

The scope is an old Hensholdt-Wetzlar I fitted to the rifle with appropriate claw mount parts I purchased from NECG. The rail mount on this scope and hole spacing indicates this scope probably came from a drilling initialy. The scope need some service but it allowed me to shoot this group OK.

 

Vlad

 

 

 

 

[ken98k]

Very nice rifle Vlad. I just love the simple elegance of those old sporters.

[karlunity]

Vlad.

 

Sir, that is both a fine looking rifle and a darn good shooter.

What was the load?

 

I love the mauser and to think, the price on some was under 100 bucks.

The last 15 years was indeed a golden age of milsups.

 

karl

[Vladymere]

Ken, Karl,

 

Thank you both for your compliments on this rifle.

 

Karl, the load for this one is a Hornady 170 grain RNSP, .323" diameter bullet over 47.0 grains of IMR 4064 powder with a CCI primer and Remington Peters brass, OAL is 2.908". Group size was 7/8"

 

46.5 grains of powder gave me a 4" group. Amazing how that 1/2 grain of powder makes such a large difference. I had tried that day 43.0 grains to 47.0 grains in 1/2 grain increments. Five rounds of each load. Group sizes ranged from 2" to 4" until I hit the last five shots of the day, 47.0 grains, the magic load.

 

Vlad