Recieved Gun As Gift

[mrhp]

Hi guys, I just received a mauser sporter from my uncle. It had belonged to my dads brother and here is the story. He was in the Military in Germany and My uncle and 5 other guys got their hands on a few guns, and brought them to a gunsmith and had them sporterized. They then dis-assembeled them and sent them home. Fast forward a few years and my uncle was killed in a bulldozer accident when quite young. My dad looked after the gun for years and then gave it to his brother in law. I have not seen the gun for over 30 years! Well, uncle Art is no longer hunting and he gave me my choice of 2 guns. Not even a choice. I chose my uncle Louies gun sight unseen, and before he told me what the other gun was. Well he dropped it off for me and I was speechless. Scoped, sporterized, beautiful wood, checkering, and blueing. It was almost never used because all the markings were removed from the gun and nobody knew the caliber. It had shot 8mm rounds, but I guess it didn't seem right so they quit shooting it. They later had the chamber cast and was told it was a 30-06. It has shot the 30-06 I guess with no issues. It has a double set trigger that did not work properly. When you closed the bolt, it would drop the firing pin when I got it.! Well, I disassembled it and made adjustments to the kicker, and now operates as designed. I am going to install the steel strut for the rear screw in the receiver for stability. It is also missing the front locking screw and I believe the rear large receiver screw is wrong, as it has no cutouts for the small lock screw. The receiver and barrel has no markings on it at all externally, and has some seemingly random markings under the receiver. It has a stamped 8 digit number on the left side of the barrel and my dad said it was my uncle Louies dog tag number. My dad is going to see if he can find Louies Military papers to verify the number. I would really like to figure out when the gun was manufactured, but I do not know where to start. I would really appreciate any help I could get. If pictures would help, or anything else, just ask and I will do my best. I apologize for the rambling, but I wanted to let you fellas know where I was coming from. I do not want to sell it. It is not original, but has great sentimental value to me. If you read this far, thank you. I really appreciate any help I could get. Thank You, Brian.

[mrhp]

I don't know how all the extra posts happened, but I am sorry. If a moderator can delete the extras, that would be great.

[Dr.Hess]

Some pics would certainly help. I would suggest closeups of all sides of the receiver. That would at least get you in the right era. Maybe measure the distance between the screw holes in the action too.

 

Certainly sounds interesting. And I didn't know a 8mm would even chamber in a 30-06, much less fire without some serious damage. Mausers are pretty darn strong.

[AzRednek]

Some 8MM cartridges will chamber in a 30/06 chamber. Generally a mil-surp 8MM cartridge and a 03 Springfield can be a deadly combination. Commercial 8MM ammo in sporting rifles the bolt usually will not close. I know somebody that put WW2 German 8MM cartridge in a 03 Springfield by mistake. He didn't get severely hurt, everything held and the bolt had to be beat open with a hammer. The then 80+ year old shooter claimed the recoil bruised his shoulder and hurt his arm. He was a wood carving artist and couldn't work for a few weeks.

 

I originally did not believe the guy. At home I tried it and with some drag the bolt did close on my 03. The same cartridge the bolt on my 30/06 Winchester 670 the bolt did not close. Another friend in my shooting circle tried commercial 8MM in his 03A3 and said he could not get the bolt to close. My 03 Springfield is marked 1908. It is possible the chamber dimensions were not as carefully measured. Since the event I will not bring 8MM and 06's on the same outing.

 

Over the years I've seen numerous discussions on the subject. Many claim it is possible and others claiming just the opposite.

[odies dad]

One possibility on the chambering is 8mm-06. 8mm Mauser (8x57) was hard to come by after WW2 so many of the bringbacks were rechambered to 8mm-06 so 3006 brass could be reformed for use.

[AzRednek]

One possibility on the chambering is 8mm-06. 8mm Mauser (8x57) was hard to come by after WW2 so many of the bringbacks were rechambered to 8mm-06 so 3006 brass could be reformed for use.

 

If he got a 30/06 chamber cast, slugging the barrel would be next logical step.

 

My former father in law shipped back a few K98's among other guns from WW2 and had them converted to 8MM/06 at a small town hardware store in the mid 50's. I guess it was a common practice when K98's were a dime a dozen. I tried to advise my FIL's grandson that inherited the gun collection. He kind of brushed me off being his aunt's X-husband. Didn't take him long to become friendly again after having problems shooting 8X57.

[karlunity]

30.06 Will chamber and fire the 8mm 7.92/57.

Once when I was young and dumb, I was firing a 1917 Enfield and an 8mm Turk and had both boxes of ammo open and on the table. I accidentally loaded the 1917 (30.06) with an 8mm round. It chambered and fired.

Only way I noticed was that the neck of the case was blown forward.

Keep in mind that the 1917 Enfield is one of the strongest actions on an service rifle. People build magums on that action in the 50 and 60's and the bore of my 1917 may be a bit worn, it has been on the rifle since 1916.

So you do NOT want to fire 8mm from a 30.06.

 

Please post pictures and we may be able to help.

karl

[mrhp]

Here are some pictures.

[mrhp]

sorry for the rotation. I am not good with this stuff.

[AzRednek]

Don't know what happened to my previous post so I'll try it again. Beautiful rifle and one you should keep in your family. Today the Mauser double triggers are nearly astronomically priced, new or used.

[mrhp]

Any places to look for clues as to when it was made?

[pacrat]

Any places to look for clues as to when it was made?

 

Yes, under the scope bases, and under the woodline of the stock. Clear close ups of any markings or proofs can likely be translated.

 

OBTW, you have a Large Ring Model 1898. Many ww2 mausers were letter and number coded to keep the allies guessing where the factories were.

 

Beautifull Rifle by the way.

[mrhp]

I will get a picture of the markings under the receiver. There are no markings under the scope bases or under the wood line. They have all been removed. I will try to get pictures tonite.

[mrhp]

Here are the pictures. I hope they help. The only other number on the gun is an 8 digit number on the left side of the barrel that I believe is my uncles dog tag number. I do not wish to post that. Don't know if it makes any difference at this point in time, but that's the way it is. I really appreciate any help.

[mrhp]

If you need any clarification on the characters, just ask. Some are hard to read.

[Dr.Hess]

Go ahead and post what the letters/numbers/figures are. Not your uncle's dog tag, the other stuff. And there is a book out on Mausers that I can't remember the title of, but it is the bible on ID'ing them.

[Dr.Hess]

Also, try looking up the stamps here:

http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/kodyen.html

http://www.shotguns.se/html/germany_1890-1945.html

http://home.scarlet.be/p.colmant/waffenamt.htm

http://home.scarlet.be/p.colmant/subcontractors.htm

http://proofhouse.com/cm/ger_ord_codes.htm

 

Here, someone ID'ed every number they could find on a rifle:

http://imageevent.com/badgerdog/germanservicerifles/1942byf42oberndorfk98k;jsessionid=dvp2rhsc81.tiger_s?n=0&z=9&c=4&x=1&m=24&w=0&p=0

I've seen reference to a book: Gun Marks by Robert Balderson. Check your library for in inter-library loan.

[karlunity]

You don't see that kind of craftsmanship any more.

The stock alone is a work art.

Did you find the Caliber?

 

karl

[mrhp]

Caliber is 30-06 and what I posted is all the marks on the gun except for the number hand stamped on the barrel that I believe to be the dog tag number. Now you can see why I have had a hard time! I will look at the sites recommended. Please keep the help coming. Brian

[mrhp]

Well, I have looked at the recommended sites and came up empty. I also found a 23 stamped on the extractor. It is fairly large and fancy compared to the other stamps. I also found a small plain 61 on the bolt release. I tried to disassemble the bolt but could not. I could see a small T on what I believe would be the firing pin. I will try again tomorrow to get the bolt apart.

[ken98k]

This rifle is a prime example of why I disapprove of the practice of "scrubbing" the manufacturers name and dates from the receiver ring.

Unless the rifle was involve in some type of clandestine operation, all military mausers came with the info intact, and I feel should be left that way. The greater majority of sporterized rifles get drilled and tapped for scope mounts that cover the markings anyway, so why bother? I always tend to stay away from scrubbed rifles because usually the person doing the scrubbing is trying to hide something.

In this case I doubt it was an attempt to hide anything but, it would be nice for the new owner to know what he really has.

[mrhp]

My uncle Louie would have gotten the gun and had it sporterized in the late 50's-early 60's. Sure wish I had the whole story on the gun. Somewhere there is a picture of my uncle in a Willys with dual wheels all around. Must have been a to steer!

[Dr.Hess]

If you really, really wanted to, I think there are chemical tests to pull numbers and other imprints off of "scrubbed" metal. It would probably damage the bluing and have to be reblued, so unless you are planning that anyway, it's not worth it.

[mrhp]

No, I would not go that far for any info. It really doesn't matter, I was just curious. I am sure it was made before 1965, but other than that I don't know. I will be bringing it to a gunsmith to give it the O.K. and then I will shoot it. I can't wait. I never met my uncle Louie, so this gun is a part of my family history I had not known about. I hope I can pass it to my son many years from now. Thank you all for the help and I will post an update when I get to shoot the gun.

[AzRednek]

I will get a picture of the markings under the receiver. There are no markings under the scope bases or under the wood line. They have all been removed. I will try to get pictures tonite.

 

 

it wasn't all that uncommon for many of the sported K98's to have many of the stampings removed in the 1950's. Vets that fought in the war did not want to look at swastikas, German eagles etc. and possibly they were polished off especially if the rifle was re-blued.

 

During the early 70's there was a dealer here in Phx that sold numerous WW2 surplus rifles. He bought the rifles from a mail order business that folded after the Gun Control Act of 1968. The Jewish dealer, father of a Rabbi had many of the visible swastikas and other markings removed from rifles he sold. The few Mausers I bought from the guy had all Nazi markings removed rather crudely. Looked as though it was done with a file. The WW2 German markings under the wood were still intact. I was told by a collector and member of my gun club in the mid 70's. There was a large mail order company in Chicago that also had many of the markings ground off. The merchant sold both original and sported Mausers assembled with mis-matched parts. Keep in mind 1970's Mauser collectors were similar to today's Nagant collectors. There wasn't much attention given to details like matching part numbers.

 

Many of the so-called arsenal sportorized Mausers sold during the mail order era were likely not done in a real arsenal. More likely in the basement of the importer or somebody's garage. There were companies like Parker Hale and Interarms that sported Mausers in the UK and Europe then exported to the USA. Most of the examples of commercial sported rifles I recall seeing the parts numbers were all mis-matched. It is possible your Mauser was assembled with parts from various manufactures in the sportorizing process. The rifle having double triggers is a good sign it was professionally sported.

 

In a nutshell. Your Mauser may have been manufactured at various locations if all the numbers are not matching.