Machinist site

[FC]

http://www.practicalmachinist.com

Nice forum. I'm dealing with a broken exhaust manifold bolt in an aluminum head. Now the extractor is broken off in the bolt! 

[Dr.Hess]

Yeah, those extractors are dangerous.  I kinda stopped using them at all. 

[AzRednek]

Is what you're naming an extractor what is commonly called an EZ OUT?? Way back in my younger days working in auto parts. I can remember a mechanic haveing to pull an engine after breaking one. A machine shop got it out but wouldn't go into details on how they did it, claiming a trade secret. All I can recall it was an exhaust manifold on a Buick. 

I do recall some mechanic's getting the broken extractors out by drilling small old around it. Never watched it being done just had it described to me. Before they sold out Vermont American brand were the only trusted brand mechanics would use. I do know Vermont American was absorbed into a corporate conglomerate and can only assume the manufacturing likely moved overseas. Snap-On, Mac and Matco easy outs were made by Vermont American. 

[Dr.Hess]

Some machine shops have an ultrasonic device that disintegrates hardened steel.  I've got them out with a hammer and punch.  Just keep bashing the extractor with the punch and a BFH until it is all gone.  Then go in with a bigger and bigger drill bit until you are at the original threads.  Use a reverse drill bit and sometimes it will catch the bolt and unscrew it.  Try to clean up the threads with a tap or put a helicoil in.

[FC]

Yup, a type of EZ-Out, made by Irwin.  Problem is the head is aluminum and there's water in the aluminum near the bolt, from what I've heard on YouTube. The machinist site has a lot of suggestions. I bought some circuit board tungsten drill bits, and some left-handed drill bits. I'm waiting on a Milwaukee right-angle drill to show up. Frame is largely in the way. Option is to ignore the bolt, but I'll make an attempt. Some of the advise is conflicting. Some options worth looking at are heating moderately with the acetylene torch, banging the extractor/bolt with a brass punch, grinding out the whole works with a Dremel tool, starting a center hole with a circuit board drill bit. I put Kroil on it, but it would have to flow upward at 45 degrees. The exhaust manifold was not flat, so I had a machinist flatten it. I'll try banging on the extractor too, but there's no gaps where flake can break off sideways. 

[AzRednek]

I recall Irwin merging with Hansen and possibly Vermont American. No telling if the quality changed as the US tool co's desperately tried to keep up with imports. Can't recall if it was Lisle or another that made an air tool for removing frozen nuts and bolts. Never handled one but was told it would shake the fillings out of your teeth. It literally vibrated back and forth very rapidly but advancing very slightly. I was told it was breaking as many bolts as it was loosening and if I remember right it was discontinued. I remember selling one to a guy that was restoring two Hudsons. On his next visit I thought the guy wanted to kiss me he was so pleased removing exhaust manifold nuts. 

A bit off subject. I worked awhile with I believe the grandson of the founder of Irwin Screwdriver. He has what he described as a seat on the corporate board and got an annual salary. He lived way above the lifestyle of any mailman, had a trophy model wife and a house worth mega bucks. He had to be gainfully full time employed in order to collect the annual salary from Irwin. He was a spoiled brat. As his union rep I constantly dealt with him being disciplined and like a teacher's pet he ratted on everybody. I watched him cry like a child as I explained to him unlike his job with Irwin he couldn't take an afternoon off to get a haircut as an hourly worker. He finally resigned just short of being fired. On his final two week suspension for absenteeism I was there when the manager told him one more chance but I'm going to have to make you feel it in your pocket book. On the second day of his suspension. The brat retaliated by buying a brand new high performance Mustang and spun broties in the parking lot. I heard after he left he got into trouble screwing around with a 16 year old. 

[donmarkey]

 I had to replace a broken one in my f250. After wasting a few hours with drills and easy outs, I finally just held a nut over the broken stud that was recessed a couple threads and filled the inside up with weld. Took two tries but it worked great. 

[FC]

Problem with the Ram was that the head is aluminum. 

AZ, giving kids too much attention just plain ruins them.

[donmarkey]

So is the ford. I wouldn’t weld on a iron one. The weld won’t stick to the alum and the heat helps free it up

[Dr.Hess]

I'm battling a bunch of busted bolts on my Land Cruiser.  The alternator went out.  Well, as I pulled it apart to get the alternator OUT, I reached the point that I was 1/3rd of the way through a timing belt job, which it was overdue for anyway.  So further down the rabbit hole I went.  The truck came from Kansas, and there is some rust.  By Texas or California standards, it's a rust bucket.  By Michigan standards, it's "rust free."  I was working on one busted bolt in the head that holds the belt cover on, busted at the last timing belt job, obviously, which was not done very professionally, and after busting the bolt extractor off in it, I gave up.  That one is what silicone pookie was invented for.

[AzRednek]

Never heard of the silicone pookie , what is it?? Whoa!! Had a heck of a time getting the word pookie past the spell check.

When I was into restoring VW Beetles I used to coat the bolts and nuts with anti-seaze lube. Made life easier especially when removing exterior parts like fenders, bumpers or running boards. One in particular my X’s father bought for her brand new in 69. It wound up sitting abandoned on her sister’s ranch for apx 15 years. I had to, well actually my father in law did most, drill out and tap new holes into many of the running board’s holes. Hardly any torque and the bolt heads just sheared off. My FIL a retired geologist and mining engineer wanted no part of using EZ outs from some previous problems. 

I had a 79 Chevy 4X I bought used for about a year in between wives. The previous owner must have been an aircraft mechanic. Many of the bolts and nuts were replaced with aircraft safety bolts. The bolt heads had horizontal  holes through them and were secured with stainless steel wire to prevent vibrations from backing them out. The bolt and nut threads were coated with a sticky mixure making them easy to remove. The substance was similar to soft Permatex or Lee cast bullet lube, not sure what it was. The downside were the replacement bolts had to be removed with Allen Wrench sockets. 

[Dr.Hess]

Just silicone sealant, or silicone gasket material, etc.  Use it as a glue.  As it is silicone, you can still cut through it later.

 

I'm using this stuff:

9438k101 @ mcmaster.com

https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/125/2242

 

as anti-seize now.  The guys on GRM recommend it and say it works better than the other stuff out there.

 

[FC]

Mine were broken off at the head.