Bought 3 Spanish Mausers

[Dr.Hess]

I bought 3 Spanish Mausers from Hunters Lodge.  Took 2 months to get them to ship to me.  They don't answer the phone, much, and never return calls.  Regarless, they ahve Mausers and if you want Mausers and don't mind zero customer service, there they are.

For $100 each, I bought a M43 large ring in 8x57, a 1916 in 308 and a 1916 in 7mm.

 

The FFL stuck it to me.  I'll have to find someone else next time.  Shipping and all, I'm in for about $550 total.

 

   

 

[Dr.Hess]

8mm:

 

Large ring.  Missing the safety.  Bolt sleeve was jammed up without it.  I have a safety on the way.  * have a 7x57 Shilen match barrel that I think I'm going to put it, then put it in a nice used sporter stock I have.

 

[Dr.Hess]

The 308:

 

Missing the ejector box.  I have one on the way.  The muzzle has no rifling from over zealous cleaning from the wrong end.  I have an extra 308 barrel.  I'm going to clean it up and see if it shoots, otherwise put the other barrel on it.

 

[Dr.Hess]

The 7mm:

Missing the recoil lug.  Anyone have a spare small ring recoil lug laying around?  I would hate to have to make one, but if that's what it takes....  Also missing the extractor, which I have plenty of.  The barrel on this one is pretty bad.  Like, went through the Spanish Civil War, rode hard, put up wet bad.  I have a commercial small ring 7x57 barrel laying around. I may make a sporter out of this one too.

Both the 1916's were made in the early 1920's.  The M43 was made in 1947.

[karlunity]

As long as you have the parts and the skill to do the work  you did well sir

[Dr.Hess]

I have the skills.  I am Bubba:

 

I have the parts, or they are on the way from fleabay or the parts places.  I have a bid on some recoil lugs.  Probably won't win, but I'll let it ride.  When I lose, I'll order from GPC.  I could make one from scratch if I wanted to, but that would be about a day's work, maybe 2, to get it right.  I have a 6" Atlas Clausing lathe, and my friend has a milling machine.  Between the 2, I think I can knock one out, but just paying $20 is a whole lot easier.

 

[ken98k]

23 hours ago, Dr.Hess said:

The 7mm:

Missing the recoil lug.  Anyone have a spare small ring recoil lug laying around?  I would hate to have to make one, but if that's what it takes....  Also missing the extractor, which I have plenty of.  The barrel on this one is pretty bad.  Like, went through the Spanish Civil War, rode hard, put up wet bad.  I have a commercial small ring 7x57 barrel laying around. I may make a sporter out of this one too.

Both the 1916's were made in the early 1920's.  The M43 was made in 1947.

What do you mean by ""recoil lug"? In my mind, recoil lugs are at the front of the bolt.

[Dr.Hess]

The recoil cross piece that goes through the stock that the receiver hits against in recoil.  It's missing on that one.

[ken98k]

1 hour ago, Dr.Hess said:

The recoil cross piece that goes through the stock that the receiver hits against in recoil.  It's missing on that one.

Don't buy one. I'm sure that I have one of those, give me a couple days to dig it out.

[Dr.Hess]

Thanks, Ken.  I think the small rings are different than the large rings.  However, the large ring Spanish M43 looks to be identical to the small ring, but I haven't dug it out of the stock yet.

[Dr.Hess]

I got the 7.62 NATO cleaned up and the missing ejector box replaced.  I haven't pulled it from the stock, but it looks pretty good for a hundred dollar rifle today.

 

 

This is my Ultrasonic Cleaner.  I use the purple power stuff straight:

Does a good job.  Turn the heat on, set the timer for an hour, come back occasionally and run it a few more hours.  Then take the stuff out, rinse, and I use my wire wheel lightly and a brass tooth brush like thing (HF.)  Here's the 7mm bolt after it got the process and I put the extractor on:

 

As a reminder, here's the 7mm "before."

 

[Dr.Hess]

This is my first 308.  I've standardized on the 7x57 for stuff I don't need.  I have 2 reamers, all 3 gauges in 7x57.  Nothing at all in 308.  So I bought some of that once fired brass as suggested, full length sized it, loaded up some 167gr OTBT Match blemised bullets and 45gr of Varget.  First round:

 

Looks darn tight to me.  Don't need to stinkin' headspace gauge.

That one went into the hill as I looked the other way with extra safety glasses on and held it away from me.  Next up, a target:

That's at 50', standing, using my computer glasses so I can see the front sight (but not the target, oh well.)  Also still shaky from being sick for the last 6 months.  I'm calling it a shooter.  My experience with junk 7x57 barrels is that they tend to shoot keyholes in a 2-3 ft pattern at 20 feet.  This looks real good.

 

[inthe10ring]

15 hours ago, Dr.Hess said:

This is my first 308.  I've standardized on the 7x57 for stuff I don't need.  I have 2 reamers, all 3 gauges in 7x57.  Nothing at all in 308.  So I bought some of that once fired brass as suggested, full length sized it, loaded up some 167gr OTBT Match blemised bullets and 45gr of Varget.  First round:

 

Looks darn tight to me.  Don't need to stinkin' headspace gauge.

That one went into the hill as I looked the other way with extra safety glasses on and held it away from me.  Next up, a target:

That's at 50', standing, using my computer glasses so I can see the front sight (but not the target, oh well.)  Also still shaky from being sick for the last 6 months.  I'm calling it a shooter.  My experience with junk 7x57 barrels is that they tend to shoot keyholes in a 2-3 ft pattern at 20 feet.  This looks real good.

 

Ive always been curious if anyone has ever had the bushing come out of the cknverted 7.62 CETME barrels 

15 hours ago, Dr.Hess said:

I got the 7.62 NATO cleaned up and the missing ejector box replaced.  I haven't pulled it from the stock, but it looks pretty good for a hundred dollar rifle today.

 

 

This is my Ultrasonic Cleaner.  I use the purple power stuff straight:

Does a good job.  Turn the heat on, set the timer for an hour, come back occasionally and run it a few more hours.  Then take the stuff out, rinse, and I use my wire wheel lightly and a brass tooth brush like thing (HF.)  Here's the 7mm bolt after it got the process and I put the extractor on:

 

As a reminder, here's the 7mm "before."

 

 

[Dr.Hess]

22 minutes ago, inthe10ring said:

Ive always been curious if anyone has ever had the bushing come out of the converted 7.62 CETME barrels 

 

The Spanish did not use a bushing.  They took the old barrels off, bored them to 30, rifled, turned down the shoulder, turned down the breach face, chambered for 7.62NATO and put it back together.  The Chileans put a bushing in some of their small ring rifles.  I would not want one of those. 

[ken98k]

Looks like a good shooter to me!

I have one of the 7.62 small rings somewhere. I never fired it, back when I bought it, the rumor was it was not safe. Too much pressure for the action.

[Dr.Hess]

Yeah, that's a BS rumor.  They are safe.  The 7.62 and 7x57 have virtually the identical pressure when measured the same way.  It is even possible that the original 7x57 from the 1890's had more pressure than the 7.62.  I have some articles and tests on it here if you are interested.

 

If you run across your 7.62 small ring, can you look to see if it has a magazine spacer in it?  I seem to be missing one.  If I knew what it looked like, I'd draw it up in CAD and 3D print it in ABS, then get my friend to print it in nylon.

[ken98k]

9 hours ago, Dr.Hess said:

Yeah, that's a BS rumor.  They are safe.  The 7.62 and 7x57 have virtually the identical pressure when measured the same way.  It is even possible that the original 7x57 from the 1890's had more pressure than the 7.62.  I have some articles and tests on it here if you are interested.

 

If you run across your 7.62 small ring, can you look to see if it has a magazine spacer in it?  I seem to be missing one.  If I knew what it looked like, I'd draw it up in CAD and 3D print it in ABS, then get my friend to print it in nylon.

As I recall, it did have a spacer, holding the cartridges to the rear of the mag. I remember there was a discussion on that subject with z1r.

[Dr.Hess]

That makes sense, Ken.  I can see where the spacer should go.  I just can't find a picture of one on teh googlez.  My google-fu is failing me. 

[Dr.Hess]

The 8mm 98 doesn't have 2 cracks, it has 1 crack crack through the stock in the sagittal plane.  Uh, trigger plane.  I got it out of the wood, and the crack goes through the stock all the way, top to bottom and forward to the magazine cut out.  And, I figgered out why it cracked and why the lower metal is proud of the wood.  The front receiver screw was snapped off flush with the bottom of the receiver.  I managed to get the busted end out of the receiver today, saving the receiver.  Always feels good when you get one of those busted bolts out of something.  "WIN!"  

 

I think I can get some Titebond III down in the crack and call it good.

[Jeremy]

Once again I'm late to the party and it is the same reasons. I have been as busy as a one legged man in a butt kicking contest. Those rifles look like fun projects. I'm glad to hear that you got a pesky broken action screw removed. Do you still need a recoil lug? 

[Dr.Hess]

No, Kenny sent me a recoil lug and a front action screw to replace the broken one.  (THANKS AGAIN, KENNY!)

It is ALWAYS a really good feeling when you are working on a broken bolt in the hole like that and it starts to move.  I basically refuse to use an Easy-Out type tool.  I tried a left hand drill bit but it wouldn't back out.  I managed to go down about a quarter inch into the center of the bolt (screw) and that gave me some perch to get a punch to dig into, then got it out with the hammer/punch.

I have the 8mm ready to test fire now.  I fixed the crack.  It was one big crack all the way through the wrist.  I tried the Titebond penetrating super glue.  No good.  Tired the Titebond 2, clamped, set overnight, no good.  Went with Gorilla Glue and shot it deep into the crack with a syringe and 18ga needle, then taped over the outside, clamped the crap out of it.  That held.

Before I take the 2 small rings out of the wood, I needed to finish up a small ring 1916 I bought from JG Sales 5 or 6 years ago, also for a hundred dollars.  These rifles were a much better deal, not even counting inflation.  That one was really beat to crap.  Patterened, sort of, at about 2 foot wide at 20 feet away and keyholes.  New used GPC barrel, same.  Another new used barrel.  Same.  New used Mexican barrel off ebay that I cut down to match the original length, and that one is good.  I just never finished the project and I didn't want to have 3 small rings all taken apart on my work bench.  I am having enough trouble keeping up with what is on there now.  So I'm finishing up the JG Sales one, than I'll test fire the 8mm with some 1920's Turkish I have.

[Dr.Hess]

Shot the 8mm and 7mm today. 

The 7mm swallows a Field Gauge, so it's a bit iffy.  However, I wanted to know if the barrel itself was good or would keyhole like so many others.  So I put 5 rounds through it and it did fine.  Not sure where I'm going with that one.  I could take a turn's worth off the breech/shoulder and rechamber it, or put a 308 barrel on it.  I'm leaning towards the 308 barrel.

I tried the 8mm with some 1945 Turkish ammo.  Out of about 15 rounds, 2 went off, and those on a 2nd strike.  Not sure if it's light hits or bad ammo.  I'll measure the firing pin protrusion tomorrow.  The bolt is now made of parts from 3 different bolts, and none of them match the rifle.  The two that did go off did not keyhole.

[pacrat]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:40 AM, Dr.Hess said:

Yeah, that's a BS rumor.  They are safe.  The 7.62 and 7x57 have virtually the identical pressure when measured the same way.  It is even possible that the original 7x57 from the 1890's had more pressure than the 7.62.  I have some articles and tests on it here if you are interested.

 

If you run across your 7.62 small ring, can you look to see if it has a magazine spacer in it?  I seem to be missing one.  If I knew what it looked like, I'd draw it up in CAD and 3D print it in ABS, then get my friend to print it in nylon.

Doc; 7x57, - 7.62 CETME - 7.62 NATO - 308 Win, all have severe differences in the parameters of the pressure design of the various firearms chambered in the DIFFERENT rounds.  I will comment on actual pressure differences in another post.

None of the 1916s started life as 7.62 CETMES.  Most dated back to original 1893 models.  With a designation to 1916 in that year, when they modified their old rifles to standardize with the newer mods.  In 1916 they cut the left rail slot for easier loading stripper clips,  Changed frnt and rear sights for trajectory changes in 7mm ammo, and drilled the gas port in left side of receiver ring. 

Blocking mags and shortening followers/springs.  Bob the Nailer posted a very comprehensive tutorial over on Mausercentral.net Gunsmith/Tech forum, covering the entire process.  With pics and dimensions.  Might give it a look.

When you get both of the 16s out of the wood.  Please measure from the receiver front, to the end of the raised ring of the barrel that acts as the shoulder.  They should both be right at .200".

Do either of the 1916s have flat bottom bolt faces, or push button floor plate releases?  Both are desirable features on these. The push button floor plate bottom metal is worth more than you paid for either rifle.  

 

.

[inthe10ring]

Is Bob's tutorial in the mc archives?

[Dr.Hess]

All the 1916's have a flat bottom bolt, 1893 style.  They also all have a magazine release, but you need to use a bullet tip to operate it, if that's what you mean by a button.  Getting that to work, after it hasn't been used in a hundred years, can be a bit challenging, but plenty of penetrating oil and some hammering gets it going.

The 7mm barrel has the original shoulder.  It has never been apart, from what I can tell, although if it is a Lowe manufacture, then the barrel is a replacement or cut down.  I already have the 2 7mm's I've been working on back in the wood, but one of them has the Mexican barrel that I turned the shoulder down and rechambered.  The 308 barrel I have in my hand has a shoulder of 3mm, 0.118".  I'll check the 308 rifle when I get it out, but I bet it will be similar.  The consensus is that the Spanish took the barrels off, bored (probably not much needed, as they were generally shot out and even if not only 8 thousandths plus the rifling needed to be removed,) rifled, then put back on.  The serial numbers of the barrels match the receivers in all the ones I've seen pics of, plus mine.  Mine has the Civil Guard crest, and the receiver looks polished there.  The Spanish made these conversions to adopt 308W/7.62 so that they could be in NATO.  Spain joined in 1982.  So, these conversions were probably in the late 70's, but I haven't seen any dates associated with the work.  The CETME was only a short duration thing for one rifle and never worked out for them.  It also had the same pressure ratings as the 7.62NATO, but lighter bullets for less recoil on full auto.