JRH Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Hi guys, I have started to work on my first Mauser. I am still very much in the "development" stages and I figured I would share what I have to started with. Hopefully, with your suggestions and advice I will be able able to piece together a quality piece of work. So far I have a purchased a VZ-24 for 130$ A Timney trigger w/safety for 45$ And an Argentine floorplate for 95$ Here are some pics...Any comments would be welcome... JRH Current stage...pieced together for fit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkerfive Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 JRH WELCOME!!! It's always good to see that someone else has joined our little 'club'. The 'club' being those of us bitten by the sporerizing bug. You've acqired some fine componets there. I am curious about that magazine, there apear to be some added cross pins. I'm wondering what that's all about, if you know. The larger question to you is if you know where you want to go with your project. Are you planning to go with an open sight 8MM sporter OR do you have in mind to change the barrel ( caliber ), add a scope, and restock your gun? The more you can tell us of what you have in mind and what skills and equipment you come with , the more we can help you. Again a hearty Welcome! Tinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 You're ready to go. Here's some advice: Decide what you want to do. Clearly define your objectives. As this is your first one, if you're like me, you will have a lot to learn. Even with the help that you will get on this board, which will be excellent, you're likely to make rookie errors - take them in stride. If you clearly define what you want your rifle to become, you'll have a better chance of getting close. You aren't likely to hit the mark the first time, but will be prepared with experience for your second try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmsniper Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 You're ready to go. Here's some advice: Decide what you want to do. Clearly define your objectives. As this is your first one, if you're like me, you will have a lot to learn. Even with the help that you will get on this board, which will be excellent, you're likely to make rookie errors - take them in stride. If you clearly define what you want your rifle to become, you'll have a better chance of getting close. You aren't likely to hit the mark the first time, but will be prepared with experience for your second try. Good advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted August 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 I am curious about that magazine, there apear to be some added cross pins. I'm wondering what that's all about, if you know. Well that is a good question...LOL I have handled other hinged floorplates such as the Parkers'...but this is the first 1909 I have had my hands on. (In fact the release seems a bit funny to me, it is obvious some work has been done on it). Therefore I guess we should first confirm that what I have is in fact a 1909 floorplate...here are some close ups. You're ready to go. Here's some advice: Decide what you want to do. Clearly define your objectives. As this is your first one, if you're like me, you will have a lot to learn. Even with the help that you will get on this board, which will be excellent, you're likely to make rookie errors - take them in stride. If you clearly define what you want your rifle to become, you'll have a better chance of getting close. You aren't likely to hit the mark the first time, but will be prepared with experience for your second try. That is exactly why I am here... I am well aware that proper planning is half the battle here. In fact that will be my main role in this project....."project manager". I will be making all the decisions then "farming" the work out to others. Obviously, this will increase the costs but I don't have the means to do the work myself. Along those lines I do have some reasonably big plans. I am fully aware it may take alot of time money to get to where I want to be, but I believe I will enjoy the process... JRH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Howdy JRH,and welcome to our board.Are you planning on building a standard hunting gun with maybe a synthetic stock,or a show piece?You have one of the best actions for either one.If your barrel is good,8mm is a dandy caliber for just about any animule we have.If your going to rebarrel,what do you have in mind caliber wise?Someone just mentioning starting a new gun gets everybody on the edge of their chair thinking "hot diggity dang,here we go again".Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic1 Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 looks like a good start...JRH what state are you in?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Bird Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Looks like you have a little pitting. If you wish for it to not be seen well and to provide a good hunting finish a bead blast and parkerizing will make the rust pitting almost disappear and be a very durable matte grey finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted August 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Hey Guys, Thanks for the responses..keep em coming. ------ Responses... 1)I am planning on rebarreling, stocking, finishing etc. 2)I am in NJ. 3).The pitting is atually very minor, and just happens to show up very well in those few pictures. In fact all of it is at, or below the stock line. In any case, I was under under the belief that the pitting could be taken care of relatively easily when/if I had the reciever polished before being blued or otherwise finished. Finally....any thoughts on the triggergaurd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 The trigger guard is "interesting". As you already know its already had a lot of work done on it. It's straining my imaginination to come up with ideas about what the holes in the side might have been for - maybe to hold a spacer for really short cartridges? You'll definitely want to break out the files to get the floorplate and guard to cooperate a bit better - especially around the hinge. Its hard to tell from the pix if files are all that are needed - it may be easier to weld-up the floorplate and inlet a new notch - just guessing - not an expert in this area. I do like the creative use of the hex screw as leverage for the latch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted August 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 The trigger guard is "interesting". As you already know its already had a lot of work done on it. It's straining my imaginination to come up with ideas about what the holes in the side might have been for - maybe to hold a spacer for really short cartridges? You'll definitely want to break out the files to get the floorplate and guard to cooperate a bit better - especially around the hinge. Its hard to tell from the pix if files are all that are needed - it may be easier to weld-up the floorplate and inlet a new notch - just guessing - not an expert in this area. I do like the creative use of the hex screw as leverage for the latch! Thanks Doble, I thought something was up...lol The hex screw was a sure tip off. In fact it looks like that piece needs to be removed and replaced with something a bit longer as it does not provide enough room to swing the hinge as far as it should go without a stuggle. The question becomes whether or not I would be better off starting off with a better floorpiece, or just getting this one fixed? As far as the pitting goes here is a better close up. This shows the absolute worst spot on the whole reciever. In fact this shows most of the pitting on the entire reciever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 better off starting off with a better floorpiece, or just getting this one fixed? We're getting back to the questions about what you're really trying to create. The guard (assuming it functions well) will be great for a utilitarian hunting rifle. I can't tell for sure but with some file work you may be able to get it looking decent. I don't mind the hex screw in the release, but I'm a Bubba. You mention that you're shooting high with this project and in that case this guard probably is going to be trouble. In my neck of the woods I wouldn't be able to find someone to fix it up for what commerical bottom metal costs. Maybe consider saving this for project #2 (its inevitable, and not so bad once you just give in). While other folks are working on your VZ you can work on this bottom metal. Just some suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 My guess is that someone blocked the rear of the magazine hence the holes in the guard. Probably for .308 lebgth cartidge or .250 maybe. The scre win the release was a shortcut to what is normally welded there. The argie guard came with two types of release levers: One was flush the other had the serrated hump. I'm sure with work you can gussy this one up. As to the holes, well, if the rifle is assembled no one will know they are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted August 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Well I guess the real issue comes down to the fact that, as it is... it does not function very well. As I mentioned, when the hinge is depressed it does not release the floorplate until after the head of that screw is beyond being flush with the triggergaurd. (Obviously the work on this guard was done recently as I could not imagine using this release in the field as is.) So, I would obviously need to have some work done on this piece before I could use it. I am relatively certain I could send it back to the person I purchased it from for a full refund. To me it seems like for 100$ I should be able to get a fully functional floorplate. Any thoughts guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 The functioning may be a different issue, and not hard to resolve...BUT Given the other concerns, if it were me, I'd return it. But you will be missing-out on an interesting challenge. But interesting challenges should cost $35, not $100. If we allow inflation of challenges we'll all be broke in no time - we need to stick together here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemson Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 I think I would be inclined to hang on to the bottom metal. I don't see anything that could not be cleaned up. The holes in the magazine are of no consequence and won't show in the final product. The half-moon notch at the trigger is mystifying, but does not particularly hurt anything. I would probably lose the screw and make a tab to activate the latch. Overall, I think you have a good action to work with. Clemson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donmarkey Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 I think I would be inclined to hang on to the bottom metal. I don't see anything that could not be cleaned up. The holes in the magazine are of no consequence and won't show in the final product. The half-moon notch at the trigger is mystifying, but does not particularly hurt anything. I would probably lose the screw and make a tab to activate the latch. Overall, I think you have a good action to work with. Clemson The half moon latch looks like a clearance cut for a trigger mounted safety. Except it's on the wrong side, maybe they just cut both sides. If you have access to a welder, you could just fill in the hex of the screw and round the top of the weld to whatever shape you like. Unless you payed alot for it I'd keep the guard, you can learn alot from trying to fix things. -Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun nutty Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 That hexhead screw for the floorplate release is a nifty idea. If it's too short, you can always cut off the threaded part off a machine screw with the same thread pitch, making a "stud". Drill and tap a hole with the same pitch into the end of a section of some small diameter steel rod. Thread the stud into the piece of rod, and the other end of the stud into the existing hexhead hole. You can put a nice round on the end of the rod by turning it in a drill press and filing as it turns. If you do this right, it should almost look "factory". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 My original post of two days ago seems not to have survived. It appears as though perhaps the original owner/butcher may have blocked the magazine for function with shorter cartridges. Just one possibility. Not sure about the halfmoon cutouit by the bow? I'd be pissed if that cost me $100 but as Clemson so correctly noted, these guards are getting harder to find. The crappy Zastava guards are fetching upwards of $100 on fleeceBay. Luckily for you, none of the mods are visible. The release mod was a shortcut to the normal approach of adding a bit of weld and serrating the hump. There were two kinds of Argie guards. You got the one without a hump, in fact, it should actually have a groove. It's odd that the floorplate still has the argie marking yet the SN has been removed from the front near the forward guard screw and at the same time the stake that is used to set the guard screw has been removed too. Makes me wonder if the guard/magazine is even argie in origin or if it was welded? Seems to me if they went through the trouble of welding those bits why not the floorplate? Most if not all that pitingshould come out with a good polish / surface grind job. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted August 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Not sure about the halfmoon cut out by the bow? Thanks for the great response Zlr. As far as the half moon goes, I think that one is pretty clear. It was cut to fit the swing arm on the Timney triggers with integral safety... Here is a pic showing the feature in action... As for the original seller that I purchased this part from...here was his response... "I have no clue why you would not be happy with the triggerguard. It is 100% as advertized. I have sold a dozen of these and everyone else has been very pleased. Jerry...PATRIOTS ARMED " JRH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted August 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 It's odd that the floorplate still has the argie marking yet the SN has been removed from the front near the forward guard screw and at the same time the stake that is used to set the guard screw has been removed too. Makes me wonder if the guard/magazine is even argie in origin or if it was welded? Zlr... If you are refering to the small mark on the floorplate as the "argie mark" then I am even more skeptical about this piece. There is no way that mark is original! It is sitting on one of the most polished parts of the gun, yet it as crisp if as if it was just stamped! Needless to say I am coming to believe this piece is not original... There is another mark that I think is "fishy". In fact it is right above where the rear guard screw sits. Take a look this pic and tell me what you think...(see the small indentation above the screw...is it possible that used to be where a locking screw slot was and someone tried to weld it up but didn't fully fill the spot before polishing over it? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Here is a pic of one of my argie guards. You can clearly see the floorplate with the stamp. That may well be the only argie part. hard to say. The argie guard is on the right. Thanks for the pic of the safety. Now it makes sense, they just milled out both sides at once because it was easier. I never liked the side safeties so I've never installed one. After seeing that, I never will. Perhaps that was a commercial guard he fitted an argie floorplate to? Or, like I say, a reworked argie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted August 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 I never liked the side safeties so I've never installed one. After seeing that, I never will. Zlr, I am not all that fond of them either. In fact I most likely will not use that safety on this gun. While I know that the 3 position Winchester style safeties run around 150$, I do not know how much a gunsmith would charge to install one. Does anyone have any info or insight on the subject? If so, I would appreciate any info that you could provide. THX JRH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Does anyone have any info or insight In my neck of the woods it isn't possible to find someone local who can do this type of work. This is a big part of why I try to do everything I can myself. The downside is that my skills are such that the end result, while functional, isn't always pretty. The upside is that things are getting prettier and prettier as I keep working. My thinking is that those that still do this type of work are a dying breed and are worth our support to keep around when we can find them. If you can find someone who can do a good job of installing a three position safety on a Mauser chances are that it will take a while and cost a bit but both sacrifices will be worth it in the end. Of course the other option is to start learning to do one yourself. I think that the original flag safety can be modified to provide excellent function, and with patience can look nice too (Mad Jack's recent post is an excellent example). Here's another example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted August 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Thanks for the advice Doble... Unfortunately I have virtually no access to a shop or tools. In order for me to have to access to them I have to get out of the city.....In order to do that, it cost time and money as well... I have already accepted the fact that I am going to have to pay to have most of this work done. I don't mind that fact as long as I make sure I get quality work. I think I may have mentioned earlier my role here is really going to be the one of "planner". That is why I am trying to gather this useful input from the members here. In the end all I am looking for is a gun that will make me happy! In order to that I need three things. 1). To do the best job I reasonably can 2). To have as much input into the project as I reasonbly can 3). To complete the project as inexpensively as I reasonble can while still meeting requirements #1 and #2. The more questions I ask, and the more info I gather while in these planning stages the more likely I am to meet my goals! JRH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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