8mm-06?

[Kyle]

Does anyone have a Mauser chambered in 8mm-06?

 

I just bought a LR barrel in 8mm-06 and am planning to build a rifle chambered in it and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with it.

 

 

[z1r]

You get maybe 100 fps more than the 8x57.

 

If you think about it, if the 8x57 were a 30 caliber then it would fall right in the middle of the .308 and .30-06. So you can expect half the increase an -06 has over a .308. In other words, not much. Still, -06 brass is a bit cheaper than 8x57 and certainly a bit easier to get.

[CSANSO]

From what I have read about the 8mm/06 is that it is almost exactly like the 30/06 with bullets of the same weight. I think because of the greater bore size of the 8mm there is a slight increase or possiblity of increase in the fps of the bullets over the 30/06 but it is not enought to worry about it. I have been looking for one for the past few years. before I bought my new 30/06. Like most know it was a wildcat made from a specific need after WW2. I may still get one if I can find one I want. I am thinking of trying to build one in 8mm /06 ackley improved with the 40 degree shoulder. Now you would see a good 100 fps increase over the 30/06. the 8mm o6 is a full handloading venture anyway might as well get some sort of advantage over the parent case if you have to handload. Would be very easy to get a reamer from somewhere and make the chamber a ackley improved with almost the same cost to build. MS8mm

[Racepres]

Can't call myself an expert, but, all I have studied has shown that if cases are like same, and bullet weight is same, but bore is larger in diameter, Then the larger bore will yield less pressure [slower] w/ same powder charge! Of course I have been wrong before so please correct me if this is the case. MV

All that aside the 8mm-06 should equal the '06 and 308, and be a better field performer, if you follow the bigger bullet theory!

[CSANSO]

Can't call myself an expert, but, all I have studied has shown that if cases are like same, and bullet weight is same, but bore is larger in diameter, Then the larger bore will yield less pressure [slower] w/ same powder charge! Of course I have been wrong before so please correct me if this is the case. MV

All that aside the 8mm-06 should equal the '06 and 308, and be a better field performer, if you follow the bigger bullet theory!

Racepres, What you have said is all ture. Having a larger bore with the same powder charge will cause less pressure and less mv .. But when you increase powder charge to cause the pressures to be the same in both rifles the larger bore will have an increase in mv. I think that when comparing diferent calibers in the same case that pressures being equal the advantage in mv goes to the 8mm at the muzzle. Now downrange with a lets say 150 grain bullet in both the better bc on the 30 cal bullet will allow it to retain better ballistics past say 200 yards. So the increase at the muzzle is negated by the fact that the 8mm bullet loses more energy at distance. So then we can try to have two bullets with simalar bc and different weights and compare them .. I would think the 200 grain 8mm and the 180 gr 30 cal bullets have simalar bc. In this case of course mz velocity will be different but the amount of retained energy loss will be very simalar with the two bullets. MS8mm

[Kyle]

So the 8mm-06 is just a little better performer then 30-06? Is it even worth building a rifle in 8mm-06 from a practical standpoint or should I just re-sell the barrel and go with a different caliber?

 

Would it make a more noticable improvement if I was to change it to 8mm-06 Ackley Improved to make it more worth while? How exactly would I go about doing that?

[z1r]

Only you can determine if it is worth it. Remember, it is a wildcat. That means NO factory ammo so it is handload only. That is a pain to some, and par for the course for others.

 

Like I say, it will give you a MAX of 100 fps over the 8x57. Most people don't get that. ME, I'd stick with the 8x57. You can get 8x57 ammo most anywhere.

 

Price dies, they may cost most than 8x57 dies.

 

If you feel 100 fps is worthwhile then go for it.

[CSANSO]

So the 8mm-06 is just a little better performer then 30-06? Is it even worth building a rifle in 8mm-06 from a practical standpoint or should I just re-sell the barrel and go with a different caliber?

 

Would it make a more noticable improvement if I was to change it to 8mm-06 Ackley Improved to make it more worth while? How exactly would I go about doing that?

Like z1r says depends on what you think is practical. Is handloading practical for you? For me it is fine I have all most all of the components required to make 8mm06 ammo. All but the dies. Making it a ackley would mean taking the barrel to a smith and leting him ream the chamber with a reamer of ackley demensions. If you decide the 8mm06 is not for you I would consider taking it off your hands :). I have been thinking of doing the 8mm06 ackley for sometime now and it would be the first step in the project. How is the condition of the barrel? I would call the proformance of the two identical. There is no real diference between the 30/06 and the 8mm 06. The ackley can improve the ballistics on average some where near 100 fps. Which is about what ackleying any cartridge will do except for the 35 whelen which usally will get only around 50fps more velocity. The ackley on the whelen does not improve powder capacity much but does improve what some would think as a small shoulder. but chambered correctly the regular whelen will not have a problem with headspace. Here is my email if you want to get rid of the barrel C_Sanso@yahoo.com . It would make a dandy rifle for all North American game if you decide to go with it just no factory ammo avaliable. MS8mm

[roscoedoh]

Handloader Magazine on the 8mm-06

[z1r]

Just so my comments weren't taken the wrong way. I'm finishng up an 8x60. It offers even less performance increase than the 8mm-06 does over the 8x57. That hasn't stopped me though because it is such a must have cartridge.

 

That's the beauty of handloading and rifle building; you can have whatever you want. Plus, much of this sport is simply a matter of personal prefference. What I like may not float your boat and visa-versa. At this point in time I wouldn't build an 8mm-06 but then you probably wouldn't build an 8x60. :-)

 

Eventually I'll have one because I seem to be slowly increasing the 8mm's in my collection. Right now they are the 8x57, 8x60 and 8x68. I think BradD has more than me though and he's got that funny 325 WSM, lol.

[~DEVO~]

Just so my comments weren't taken the wrong way. I'm finishng up an 8x60. It offers even less performance increase than the 8mm-06 does over the 8x57. That hasn't stopped me though because it is such a must have cartridge.

 

That's the beauty of handloading and rifle building; you can have whatever you want. Plus, much of this sport is simply a matter of personal prefference. What I like may not float your boat and visa-versa. At this point in time I wouldn't build an 8mm-06 but then you probably wouldn't build an 8x60. :-)

 

Eventually I'll have one because I seem to be slowly increasing the 8mm's in my collection. Right now they are the 8x57, 8x60 and 8x68. I think BradD has more than me though and he's got that funny 325 WSM, lol.

Z1R has a point. I like trying to make old rifles shoot and perform better than when I first bought them. In the long run, It may have been easier to just purchase a rifle in the intended caliber, but you wouldn't have LEARNED much on how to TINNKER with your rifle to make it fit YOUR personal goals or wishes. I really do not make or purchase rifles to fill a niche, I have my 300RUM for hunting deer, bear and pig and my 223 for varmit. Everything else is just to see if I am capable of building a rifle in an odd caliber.

 

I have learned lots of info on this forum and I have respect for everybody who comments (good and bad) to my threads, because it provides me with direction to my builds. Anyways I build rifles just to say YUP I built that ugly looking stick... but I sure love how it shoots.

 

Have a good day everyone.

[Kyle]

Right now I'm torn between building a rifle in 8mm-06 or not. If I decide not to I'll contact you MS8mm. It seems like a very nice barrel though. It is 24 inches long, threaded for LR Mauser, in very good condition and has a very nice blue on it. It is stamped 8mm-06 I assume someone didn't think it was a standard 8x57 Mauser.

 

I don't reload right now but I'm planning on eventually picking up one of those Lee kits and start so hopeuflly I'll be reloading by the this time next year.

 

How hard would it be for me to ream the chamber to 8mm-06 Ackley Improved myself? I have access to a lathe and it might be possible to borrow or rent the reamer I'd need. That would make it a little more practical I think.

 

 

 

[Racepres]

Gare-un-teed, If I had a barrel and an action for it, I would have to put it together. If for no other reason, just to see. Personally I collect wildcats, not for increased performance, but because I like to have something that the whole world don't! Put 'er together and have fun... Or let me have it!! I'll trade ya something mundane like an '06 or how bout a 270?? Have fun, don't take it all too serious... MV

[Guest Guest]

I am not trying to sway you one way or the other. Reloading has become a large part of my life. I enjoy it and feel a since of accomplishment, like many on here, when I can make something that is both useful and better than can be bought in a store. Your barrrel sounds like a good tube and would make a fine project for you to try. I have been reloading now for almost 4 years and I am still learning with new tools and equipment coming out all the time. It becomes easier and more fun everyday. The fact remains if you decide to keep it you are going to have to reload for the 8mm06. Not saying you can't put that barrel on a shelf and make it your next rifle which is always a option. I think lots of frist time rifle builders, if that is what you are, either start reloading after they build thier first rifle or are reloaders from the beginnig and start building thier rifles cause they think they can make better than the factory. Either way the choice to start reloading is never a bad one in my option. If you take your time and read a little info. Buy a few reloading books most have info about reloading in the first few chapters. I have about 7 current reloading books and some past editions.

The Lee kit is a good starting kit to get except I would advise you get a different scale. Maybe a RCBS, a Redding or Foster. I dont really care for the Lee scale. There powder measure works and there press is of good quality. The kit comes with shell holders and the things needed to decently prep your cases. All in all the Lee is a good value. You will have a some start up cost but these things are powders, bullets and cases. To start you can get one can of powder, a box of bullets, cases and primers. Would be a total cost of maybe a 150 dollars maybe 200 depending on who you got your dies from. My first sport build was a 98 action and I saved money by just staying with the 8x57 barrel that was on my action.

With you having a lathe you could of course do all or most of your lathe work once you got the hang of it. I do not have a lathe yet (no room in the house and no workshop) to do any of my own work. But I made friends with a few local gunsmiths and they allowed me to use thiers and helped me along the way. Add in a welder, a good drill press, maybe a nice belt sander, a few bench vise and you have it made. Most of the gunsmiths I have meet have all been wonderful men who were always willing to pass along the knowledge to a new rifle looney.

If you want my advice GO FOR IT!!! Build that thing ask questions along the way and we will try and give you what we know. CAN I GET AN AMEN!!!! MS8mm

[CSANSO]

Sorry I forgot to log in the above post is mine:)

 

[ken98k]

I'll agree with MAUSERSHOOTER8MM, I like most Lee products except their scale and powder measure,

I've loaded thousands of rounds with my Challenger press since 1992 but long ago switched to A RCBS scale and a Redding powder measure.

 

If anyone wants them, I'll send them my Lee scale and measure for cost of postage!

[AzRednek]

Kyle, I admire your tenacity of thinking outside the box. Like Racepres I think you want to build something other than a simple military conversion sporter. The 8mm/06 will give you a little more oomph than the 8X57 and you might see it on a crony. I doubt it will give you the improvement of reaching out another 50 yards, penetrate a game animal’s vitals a little deeper or group an inch higher. If you already have the paid for 8mm/06 barrel on the way it looks as though you might have a challenging project started and you’re in it deep enough now you might as well proceed. Simply because “I want one” is sufficient.

 

I fooled around a little with 8mm/06 several years ago. My x-father-in-law bought home a K98 from WW2 and had it converted after trying to buy 8MM ammo. The conversion was done by a hardware store clerk for a few bucks. The hardware store also sold and loaded the 8mm/06 from the then abundant supply of US GI 30/06 brass. After he moved to Phoenix, not being a reloader and not finding ammo anywhere, the rifle sat in his closet for over 30 years without being fired. He claimed US soldiers were told by Army brass not to use any captured ammo because it may have been sabotaged and dangerous, so he didn’t return with any ammo.

 

I don’t think any 8X57 ammo was available through normal channels in the US until the late 60's. Back then there was no internet and the mail order business was so corrupt at the time there just wasn’t a reliable source of military ammo. For years the only source of 8MM brass was loaded ammo. I recall trying to locate 7, 7.65 & 8MM brass in the mid 70's and the three biggies (Remington, Winchester & Federal) wouldn’t sell just brass for 8MM and many other calibers. Remington and Winchester certainly didn’t want to supply ammo or brass or support mil-surps in any way as it was interfering with their new firearms sales. Norma did sell the brass but the cost was close to a box of the biggies’ loaded ammo.

 

The 8mm/06 was a common conversion. The conversion was done to enable returning GI’s to shoot their souvenirs not to enhance the performance. There were similar conversions done to captured Jap rifles for the same reason. Simply because ammo was not available. I think the Jap conversions were done to 300 Savage. Seems to me trimming 06 brass would have been a simpler solution but I guess having an 8MM/06 was the in thing back in the 40, 50 and 60's. Possibly jamming a boat tailed 8MM slug into an 06 case with a Lee Loader or similar tool worked.

 

I reloaded it two different ways not having the correct die set. First I used a 30/06 die with an 8MM expander ball. I recall losing a few pieces of brass splitting the necks trying to sneak the 30 cal neck over the 323 expander ball on the up stroke. Not really a good idea because it over-works the brass’ neck. The second batch after being fire-formed I just backed an 8X57 die out, resizing it just enough to assure it would seat in the chamber. Best I recall I used published 8MM loading data.

[AzRednek]

 

If anyone wants them, I'll send them my Lee scale and measure for cost of postage!

 

Put them on Ebay, you might be surprised what reloading tools sell for there. It is always a good idea to have a back-up scale even if it is the hard to use Lee. Scales do go bad and if things just don't seem right it is a good idea to have something to verify your load.

 

[bilurey]

Get into reloading, it's the only way to truely understand firearms, it's generally the sign of an accomplished shooters. Simply reading numbers off the pages of a reloading manual will only leave you confused and frustrated.

 

The sign of a fully addicted shooter is getting into wildcat or improved cartridges. Most of the time their efforts amount to trying to improve the Potatoe Chip, an Oreo cookie, or Coca Cola.

 

For some real fun go back and replicate some of the early 20th century cartridges, find out where the 7 Mag., .308, 264 Win. Mag. really came from. Compare the 7.65x54 Belgian or Argentine to the 7.62 NATO mil. spec and blush.

 

You didn't let you folks pick out your girl firends or bride, why let a sporting goods dealer pick out The cartridge which is best for you? Bill

[AzRednek]

For some real fun go back and replicate some of the early 20th century cartridges, find out where the 7 Mag., .308, 264 Win. Mag. really came from. Compare the 7.65x54 Belgian or Argentine to the 7.62 NATO mil. spec and blush.

 

I agree with Bilurey's post. I also suggest you read an older edititon of Frank Barnes' Cartridges of the World. The current edition is often used in college level law enforcement education. I was surprised many years ago while taking a tour of the FBI building in Wash. D.C. to see a few editions sitting on their shelf in the lab area.

 

I suggest an older edition, often available for a nominal cost on Ebay, Amazon or gun shows because Frank Barnes the original author has passed away. The newer editions do not have any loading data. Do not however rely on the loading data, there were some mis-prints and most of the data was derived from other sources and not tried or tested by the author. Before you use Barnes's data verify it with current published data. There are some cartridges that there is no published data anywhere except in Barnes's book.

 

Cartridges of the World is one of those books that is hard to put down, especially when reading about the history and development of many of today's current offerings. You will learn many wildcats were somebody simply re-inventing the wheel of a previous long ago forgotton loading. Also many of today's factory ammo are somebody's yesteryear wildcat.

 

[richp41]

Kyle, I just got my computer back on line and saw your question about the 8mm-o6. I've been reloading and shooting a converted Turk for several years and have had some worthwhile experience with this cartridge using both jacketed and lead bullets. If you have specific questions I'll answer based on my experience and we can avoid generalizations and opinions. This is probabaly one of the oldest wildcats because of the number of souvenir guns brought home from 2 world wars. Mine was converted when I found my Turk to have a very long throat that adversely affected accuracy. A quick reaming to accomodate the longer case corrected that problem. It will handle bullets from 125 grs to 250 grs and ends up shooting just a shade faster than the 30-06 with similar bullet weights. Powder and load guidelines can pretty much be gathered from 30-06 data. The larger bore slightly reduces pressure and allows a slight increase in pewder charges over the -06. Shoot a box or two of 200 or 220 gr full power loads and you realize this is not a powder puff cartridge. Lead bullets at 260 to 275 grs also get a fair deal of attention even at reduced velocity. The conversion of 30-06 to 8mm-06 is very simple and straight forward-- just run fired 30-06 cases thru a 8mm-06 full length sizing die. I also used 35 Whelen cases but don't recommend that unless you have a goodly amount of reloading experience and won't elaborate now. Rich P

[Doble Troble]

I've made an 8mm-06. It's a great cartridge. Like everyone else hase said, it'll do a bit more than the 8 x 57 over the chrony. It's easy to prep brass (I expand 30-06 necks with a cheap Lee 8 x 57 die, and seat bullets with the same set - so I haven't had to buy new dies - shooting Garand matches has me swimming in -06 brass and so if the shoulders move too far for neck sizing - I'll throw them in the recycling bucket).

 

If you're Mauser quits shooting its a good bet to rechamber in 8 - 06 and recrown.

[cold shot]

I only found one place to buy 8X57 loaded ammo. It's only about 75% loaded. It was only in 170 HDY Roundnose. The velocity was only 2450 fps. I personally found 8mm/06 to be able to reach 2745 wiht HDY 170's. I have a throat reamer, I only stuff the bullets in at .250" which gives me a freebore of .030" It works great in my Turk 1938 with 29" barrel. It does an excellent job on Russian wild boar out here at around 225yards.

[bilurey]

I just remembered, I have a HVA built on an FN LR M98 commercial barreled action. It was imported into Sweden and stocked HVA style for some sporting goods dealer. It has a 26 in. medium heavy weight barrel. Once in Sweden it had the barrel set back and rechambered for 8x57JS. This might be a slam dunk for rechambering to 8x60JS. It has a fixed and one flip up leaf sights. Not D&T'ed for scope or peep sights, looks as though they may have reblued the metal and slapped a coat of varnish on the stock. The stock is walnut, not beech, and appears to have some figure in it. I can barely lift it now, much less shoot it and was thinking about selling it, but forgot until I started reading this thread. My wife, Spousauris, is getting good at packing rifles, not happy, but good. I bought this from a Swede dealer using a C&R, based on the 50 year rule. I've got $300 in it, will sell and ship it for that to a C&R or better FFL. Bill

[z1r]

bill,

 

send me pics. I'll probably take it. You can hang on until I get settled.

 

Thanks,

 

mike