Barreling job gone bad?

[Guest sb48]

A while back, on the old forum, I asked about having a Springfield '03 receiver barreled in .35 Whelen. One responder advised http://www.skaggsgunsmithing.com/ and I contacted this smith about the job. I emailed him saying I wanted a number 4 contour. He replied that he needed the complete action and I sent it and full payment. Sometime later, I received the receiver with a varmit weight barrel on it. I emailed him about the contour and he said he made a mistake. I have since taken this outfit to a local gunsmith to have the barrel contoured and iron sight put on. Today, he contacted me to say that the barrel job had not been finished, no bevel for loading out of the magazine, no extractory cut done? He advised me to go lightly with loads because of the way the barreling job was done. Mr. Skaggs told me that when I got the rifle back, it would be a working rifle, not true. Tomorro, I go to pick the gun up and cry about the extra money I've had to put into this project and still not have it working. I saved all the correspondence with Mr. Skaggs and now I'm glad I did. When I talk to the local guy in person, I'll make a detailed list of what he said hasn't been done. Local guy also said the barrel used isn't any top shelf barrel.

Never Again, Mr. Skaggs! This project has turned into a hole to throw money. My money is too hard to come by and my time is just as important as yours.

[AzRednek]

 

Just curious, did you give the original smith a chance to rectify the situation? I've been had a few times over the years by a some claiming to be a gunsmiths but I've also had a couple of the so-called come-backs fixed when I bought it back. I had one in paticular, a trigger job on a 45 auto, the gunsmith called me a few hours after I bought it back and profusely apologized. He was working 12/6 trying to catch up for the previous gunsmith, admitted he totally screwed up and had it done right the next day.

[Guest Spiris]

As an avid reader of this site, I feel compelled to defend Mr. Skaggs. I recently sent a turk action and a Remington .270 win barrel to be rethreaded and fitted to use the iron sights, to Mark in Oregon. Upon completion, he called me to let me know that he was shipping it back and to watch for it. I live in NC and received it about 5 days later. I had paid him for USPS shipping and he sent it FED-X. When I looked it over, the sights appeared perfectly timed and no marks on the barrel from installation. After assembly,

I took it to the range and sighted it and my first 100 yard group was 1 1/4" with my 130gr. Remington handloads. I feel that Mark Skaggs did a fine job for me and the total cost of $55.00 plus shipping was a bargain. I don't know what happened between sb48

and Mr. Skaggs, but feel Mr. Skaggs would have made right if given the chance. He did right by me.

 

 

[Guest Guest]

Mine came to close to $200 and the contour on the barrel wasn't even right? To each is own.

[jkh004]

I have to put my 2 cents in. I had him drill and tap a turk mauser for me for 2 piece bases. When I got it back, the front base was cocked out of alignment (approx. 1/8")- so far you could see it very plainly. I did some reasearch and Steve Wagner mentions the simple way to avoid the fixture being misaligned and would figure a professional would know this. I could have done better with my hand drill.

[Guest mauserhouser]

well i guess this just goes to show that no one is perfect not even me. as far as the person with the turk mauser goes i never heard a word about it and would have gladly fixed it and still will fix it no charge no questions asked. as far as the .35 whelen, man this is a long story. and i just read the e-mail from this person telling me his concerns. funny how someone will stick a knife in your back before he gives you the opportunity to make it right? i just answered the e-mail from him before reading this drivvle. as far as the barrel weight goes the only barrel Adams and Bennett offers in .35 caliber is an f-44 contour that is it. as far as the cone breech and extractor goes they are not necessary in the 03-A3 it is put there to be able to chamber a round from the top of the follower as opposed to having to pick it up from the magazine. the 2 men i worked under did not do it and they learned from Ackley and he did not do it either. he said they took the long way around on that idea. the 03-A3 is a copy of the '98 mauser and i don't see one on it and gee they seem to work fine. i told this gentleman i would put the cone breech and extractor slot in the barrel for him no problem. but remember this was before one of my HAPPY customers sent me a heads up on this full blown back stabbing. you know i try to do my best on anything i work on and if i make a mistake i am a big boy and will take responsability and fix it if given a chance. but to post a message like this and then want me to fix it and have no hard feelings over it is just too much to handle. then there is the situation where my shipper goofed up and shipped the rifle without requiring a signature. well they know better than to do this and after he could not find the rifle at his place of business ( they left it somewhere other than they normally do) this fine upstanding person contacts the ATF and reports it stolen before i even get a call. you see this is a pattern here he causes trouble then wants you to fix it no hard feelings. i remember a saying that goes like this "LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP" so then i have to call my local ATF agent and we all know what a sense of humor they have. this guy e-mails me while i am on the phone with the ATF and say's " i found it here it was in a different area than they normally leave stuff in" (DUH) i'll bet he found it by the back door just like the delivery person said he did!!! by this time i had made numerous calls to the shipper and FEDEX and the ATF. geez i could go on and on. you know i hate stuff like this. this is just like the news services they stab you in the back on page one and appolojise on the back page no one reads in small print.

[ockenfuss]

I would like to throw my two cents in on Mark here.... He has built 4 guns for me at this point and is working on a 5th with a 6th planned. They have all based on Mauser actions. The guns have all turned out to be damn fine firearms, my favorite being an 1891 action he mounted a A&B barrel on and chambered to .257 Roberts. An action I could find no other gunsmith to sporterize. Imagine my surprise when I sat down at the bench and the first 3 shots out of the gun after boresighting were touching each other in a tight triangular pattern. I had heard nothing but whining about A&B barrels and reluctantly decided to go with this one.

 

The only problem I have had, and really it is no big deal, is that one of the duracoat finishes he applied has a spot that has flaked off and he told me to send it back and he'd refinish the whole action. Talk about customer service... Seems to me that to flame someone in this manner without giving the guy a chance to rectify the situation is uncalled for. Don't let this guy's misunderstanding of how good business works deter you from having a great gunsmith work on your firearms. Keep up the good work Mark!

[Guest Guest]

Well Steve, i slept on this last night and after talking to several of my customers and my Wife until past 11:PM my time last night and these people were at least 2 hours ahead of me and concerned about this. the only way i would consider removing the barrel and re-cutting the breech and extractor slot (which is totally un-necessary) by the way! is for you to go onto this site and any other site you posted on and make a full retraction and to explain that after i read the e-mail you sent and seeing you concerns agreed to make it right even though this was not a necessary repair. you see as it stands now you have already taken some cheap shots at my character and ability and i am sure you have cost me some future work (your plan i am sure). and you posted this thread before even calling or letting me have an opportunity to answer the e-mail. i worked in the Oilfields for 24 years and was the Manager of a very large future 500 company and have found there are some people you just can't make happy no matter what you do. and to loose too much sleep over it would just be "loosing sleep" because you ain't gona make them happy no matter the cost financially or emotionally . and as far as that barrel being NO TOP SHELF barrel. well it's an Adams and Bennett barrel these are reasonable priced barrels that in my experience shoot better than there modest cost and i have installed over 100 of these barrels this year and most of which i bought at Sporter Express and have never had a dud if you don't believe then as J.J.who owns Sporter Express. on the other hand i have a Shilen barrel on a personal rifle of mine i chambered in .30-338 and can't make it shoot and i paid 3 times as much for it as an Adams barrel?. what did you think i was going to give you for that price? a Pac-Nor or a Kreiger both fantastic barrels that cost around $300 for a contoured blank. so in a word yes i will modify the barrel for you and at no charge to you. but you know what i want in return a full retraction. if this is not agreeable to you? well then i am sorry Mr. Bennett, then you may just keep the barrel as it stands and shoot it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mark D. Skaggs

[Guest mauserhouser]

I won't make a full retraction! I do understand that the way the breech end of the barrel was done is a gunsmithing opinion but, the contour, that cost me near $100 or have done was my main problem with your work! I specified in my posts to you that was the shape I wanted. You never once, mentioned that you couldn't do this. I emailed you when the rifle returned and after taking the gun to the local gunsmith? The only time you've had to reply is when you think I've wronged you? As I said in my post, I'm not going to send this or any gun to you again.

 

That is your prerogative Sir and would probably be best that way. and as far as the contour it's an Adams and Bennett F-44 their #4 like i said that's all they offer. sorry if there was a miss-understanding there. it's definitely not the same as a Douglas or Shilen #4 like i said before i do not make these barrels i purchase them and install them and for the price you paid i can't spend hours on the lathe re-contouring and belt sanding them to different contours. like i said "sorry for any Miss-understanding on the contour" but i have no way of re-contouring barrels as of yet. and had i known this was such a big deal to you i would have asked you to send it back and had a fellow Smith across the Creek from me who makes custom barrels re-contour it the only drawback would have been the wait he is a little backed up most of the time. the last we talked was when you called the ATF over the supposed loss of your rifle?. (which by the way was real fun and now my ATF rep. thinks i am nuts for calling him and explaining the whole deal only to have you reply by e-mail while I'm on the phone with him I FOUND IT!!!!). you said the contour was larger than expected and i said that was what they offered in a .35 blank? the next time i had heard about it was from some customers that read the post and called me to say i have a customer grinding an axe for me. so i see a pattern here your rifle doesn't show up when you think it should have been there so instead of exhausting our efforts calling FEDEX and the shipper i use and trying to track it down, you call the ATF. and instead of calling me and explaining that you are really dissatisfied with the contour of the barrel etc. and see if i will help you out with the problem. you post a bad feed back on a message board. well maybe your mother never told you this but "you'll catch more fly's with sugar than vinegar" and as far as me paying to have some other smith re-contour a barrel for $100 when i could have borrowed another smiths machine and done it myself or sent it to Douglas and have it done for $60 doesn't look promising.

 

[Guest mauserhouser]

As an avid reader of this site, I feel compelled to defend Mr. Skaggs. I recently sent a turk action and a Remington .270 win barrel to be rethreaded and fitted to use the iron sights, to Mark in Oregon. Upon completion, he called me to let me know that he was shipping it back and to watch for it. I live in NC and received it about 5 days later. I had paid him for USPS shipping and he sent it FED-X. When I looked it over, the sights appeared perfectly timed and no marks on the barrel from installation. After assembly,

I took it to the range and sighted it and my first 100 yard group was 1 1/4" with my 130gr. Remington handloads. I feel that Mark Skaggs did a fine job for me and the total cost of $55.00 plus shipping was a bargain. I don't know what happened between sb48

and Mr. Skaggs, but feel Mr. Skaggs would have made right if given the chance. He did right by me.

 

thank you for sticking up for me and i am happy your rifle shoots well and please keep in touch, mark.

[flaco]

Let it go, Mark.

 

These things will eat your heart out.

 

You've made your case; a reasonable one, I think.

 

Soon this will be ancient history, and you'll have something else to anguish over.

 

Too soon.

 

flaco

[SporterExpress]

I too would like to state that I have also used Mark's services both personally and professionally (Sporter Express). He has rethreaded barrels and barreled 6 or 7 rifles for me. I have always been happy both in performance and appearance. As stated by others, each time these barrels have shot sub MOA. I will certainly continue to use, and refer others to Mark's services in the future.

 

James "J.J." Akins

james@sporterexpress.com

 

 

 

[riceone]

I don't know Mark but I do know that anyone who writes and will not sign his name is not due the time of day. Unregistered if you can't or won't sign you name don't post. riceone.

[fritz]

I agree with riceone

 

And if you fellows persist in pursuing this schitt, take it to the "Them Are Fightin' Words" forum.

 

I belongs there by now!

 

fritz

[montea6b]

Ditto, take it outside boys.

 

By the way, is anybody but me confused as to who's who? "Mauserhouser" seems to have made at least two posts from different sides of the argument. Then there's at least one by "guest" who appears to be the same person.

 

Although I've not been on this forum for nearly as long as others I don't recognize either of the handles of the guys duking it out here.

 

Come on, register and log-on if you are going to play.

[AzRednek]

I think this is a good forum if one has not received what he paid for if it is related to sportarizing but I see a big hole in the complaint. sb48 admits the smith fessed up to making a mistake but never mentioned if the project was returned or if the additional work was requested. Most important did the gunsmith have the chance to fix the problem, was he aware of a problem and did sb48 attempt to link the communications gap. Possibly the gunsmith shared in the fault for not following up and asking if sb48 wanted the additional work done, recommending it being done but if one asks for a re-barrel and gets a re-barrel there is not much room for a complaint.

 

Bringing in ATF before exhausting all channels is beyond chicken-shoot. I had a mis-hap when I had my dealers license, UPS jumped the gun, called in G-Men and had to eat crow. I moved my FFL from my home to my business, I vacated the house and put it up for rent. The dealer pulled up my old FFL and sent it to the vacant house but the UPS driver allegedly scribbled something that was supposed to be a signature and left it by the door. ATF wasn’t amused but went after the dealer and simply slapped UPS’s hand. The dealer/wholesaler was faced with suspension of his license, livelihood and a few people faced losing their jobs over a simple mistake. I was contacted by the dealer's attorney, they were preparing a lawsuit against UPS.

 

When I was in the uniform business I occasionally had alterations come back, always fixed the problem and on a few occasions gave the customer some extra goods usually a belt or extra shirt if we really screwed up. I had one back stabbing belly aker I’ll never forget and when she came back we told her to get lost, unfortunate for me she was a babe and a half, very popular and cost me a lot of female business. I can see why the gunsmith has copped an attitude is not being cooperative.

[Guest mark d. skaggs]

mr. mauserhouser is mark d. skaggs i thought you would pick up on that since i was the one pleading my case and i have just dropped the whole thing. but was not going to let someone take pot shots at me and not say anything in my defence sorry to have mucked up your message board with this unfortunate situation. mark d. skaggs AKA mauserhouser

[montea6b]

mr. mauserhouser is mark d. skaggs

 

That's pretty much what I figured, but what confused me is that post #8 from you which demands a retraction is marked "guest" although you signed your name at the bottom.

 

Then post #9 from "mauserhouser" opens with the line "I won't make a full retraction! I do understand that the way the breech end of the barrel was done is a gunsmithing opinion but, the contour, that cost me near $100 or have done was my main problem with your work!"

 

Was the first paragraph of post #9 a quote from a personal email and the second paragraph your response? If so, it certainly wasn't clear reading it the first time around.

 

No worries about standing up for your good name, I'd do the same thing if I was sullied in public. Too bad all this dirty laundry had to be aired here when it seems like a personal phone call could have cleared it all up.

 

I've noticed the instigator hasn't chimed in for a spell now.

[Guest mark d. skaggs]

well you see i did not know a thing about this whole mess until a customer of mine called me and a few more e-mailed me. the post you saw about not wanting to give a retraction was a copy of the e-mail he sent me. and you guys are right we beat this old horse up pretty good and now it's time to get to another task or project. and rest assured if you good people out there give me a chance to perform some work for you and you aren't happy with is for some reason please call me and i will do my level best to fix the situation and make you happy. and why wouldn't i?. heck i'd give someone one of my personal rifles to avaid a scandal like this. hopefully i will be able to offer some of my own barrels here in the future if things go right i am trying to buy out a custom barrel maker here locally and make 5 and 7 groove barrels in the P.O. Ackley tradition.