Brenden Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Hello all. Got a problem and a question. I deserve to be ridiculed because of what i've done...its stupid. ok... got some 87 grain hornady hpbt for a 243. didn't have a hornady book a few days ago..(i do now) so i used my sierria book to find a load. I settled on imr 4895 36.0 and 37.0 grains, with the max being 37.8. I just used the data for the 90 gr fmjbt, and the 85 grain hp. My first load i shot was 36 grains and it shot good but i noticed a little more kick to it, all brass looked fine except the flash holes. looked to be a little hot, like it kinda had flaked off brass and some of the holes were a little rugged looking. I think i'm working at a high pressure here, and i don't like it. Hornady uses Hodgen 4895 with a max load being only 35.3, so its safe to say i went overboard. Anybody got any loads that arn't max for a 243 with 87grain hornady hpbt, large rifle primers (cci) and imr4895? Or would it be safe to drop down to around 32 grains and work back up? I'm also considering just going to imr4064, or ww 748. Its listed in the hornady book and i've had good groups with these powders. Gotta get a new scope first, my tasco 4-16 went out on me, damn thing. Thanks and have a good one. Brenden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomme boy Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Use 4350, Hod or IMR. 4895 is a little too fast for the 243. It can be used, but it leaves too much space in the case. The 87gr HPBT Hornady is one of my favorites. 41.5gr of h4350. Seat to your rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzRednek Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Hello all. Got a problem and a question. I deserve to be ridiculed because of what i've done...its stupid. ok... got some 87 grain hornady hpbt for a 243. didn't have a hornady book a few days ago..(i do now) so i used my sierria book to find a load. I settled on imr 4895 36.0 and 37.0 grains, with the max being 37.8. I just used the data for the 90 gr fmjbt, and the 85 grain hp. My first load i shot was 36 grains and it shot good but i noticed a little more kick to it, That is the first sign of excessive pressure or something not being just right when it just doesn't feel right be it excessive recoil unusual muzzle flash or report. all brass looked fine except the flash holes. looked to be a little hot, not certain what you mean, if the primers swelled or backed out it shows the load it to hot but in some extreme cases (not your's though)can mean the load was to light like it kinda had flaked off brass and some of the holes were a little rugged looking. If the hot load expanded the primer hole to where it wont hold a primer tight get rid of the brass. If there was allot of damage to the brass you might consider checking for excessive headspace. Can you get pictures up?? I think i'm working at a high pressure here, and i don't like it. Hornady uses Hodgen 4895 with a max load being only 35.3, so its safe to say i went overboard. Anybody got any loads that arn't max for a 243 with 87grain hornady hpbt, large rifle primers (cci) and imr4895? Or would it be safe to drop down to around 32 grains and work back up? As a rule reduce the max load by 10%, weigh each and every load on your scale when you're dealing with max or near max loads. Make certain your scale zeros and there are no breezes like a fan that may cause false readings. I'm also considering just going to imr4064, or ww 748. If you have the powders on hand give them a try, reduce published max loads by 10% and work your way up, my only experience with 243 I used IMR 4350 with good results. Its listed in the hornady book and i've had good groups with these powders. Gotta get a new scope first, my tasco 4-16 went out on me, damn thing. Don't blame the scope if your loads were all over the target Thanks and have a good one. Brenden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiris Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 The 243 is a pretty high performance round and loves the slower powders, especially with heavier bullet weights. The info from the other posts here are great advice. IMR4895 does work fairly well with the lightest bullet weights such as the 55 gr. but realistically is a little too fast burning and gives a much quicker pressure rise and can give you the problems that you are experiencing. Not all guns react the same. The other powders you have listed are also a little too fast and are close in burn rate to IMR4895. IMR4350 or H-4350 are not identical in charge weight but either would be a good match for your needs. They will give you higher velocities with lower pressure as a rule compared to what you are using now, and work great in many other bottle-neck calibers too. Spiris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenden Posted December 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 az, i've got some 4350 on hand, but hornady only uses H4350 so i have to start with the lowest load 39.8 or just an even 39 grains and work up. My cases are new never fired cases, and all primers stayed in the pocket and it holds a new primer well, so pressure wasn't too bad, things may have been ok, but knowing i'm over max, it worried me. I've pulled all bullets and ready to go on. My scope az, was a tasco that i had on a 7mm mag that took a beating and wouldn't hold on the mag, so i decided to give it a try on the .243. I'm allowed to blame the scope for this one, but i should have know as well it wasn't going to hold. I weigh every charge and make sure she's exact, i want prefection, not close enough. Thanks az. Spiris, hey thanks for the info. I thought about trying the 4064 just cuz it was listed and i need some anyway, but i'll work with some imr 4350 first. I use 4350 in my 7mm and have awsome results, 1/2 inch at 100 yards outta the t/c encore. tomme boy, thanks to you as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun nutty Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Reloader's Nest has some loads for the 87 grain bullet: http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_bw.asp?...BulletWeight=87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenden Posted December 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Reloader's Nest has some loads for the 87 grain bullet: http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_bw.asp?...BulletWeight=87 Thanks a bunch gun nutty Brenden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzRednek Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Brendon try the link for some 243 data using the H4350. Years ago I knew a die hard varmint hunter that used a McGowen heavy barreled 243. Wish I knew his loads. The one and only time I went to the range with him he shot some pretty impressive groups. He made an impression upon me by showing me that shooting below max considerably improves the shot to shot accuracy. Back then I wasn't so bright and pushed all my reloads to max and shot my rifle until the barrel started smoking the oil off of it. My loads were all over the target. He on the other hand was very patient. As soon as his barrel got a bit to warm, he sat it aside and picked up a 22 until his 243 cooled down. He said something that I remember well after I bragged about the velocity I was getting out of my 308 Norma. "Why" he asked, "is the paper target going to return fire". I started bragging about the flat trajectory and 200 yard velocity compared to a 30/06 I was getting. Have to admit I felt a little stupid after he said something about the only one that will notice the extra velocity is the tree the bullet lands into as the bullet will likely go clean through a deer anyway at 06 velocities and he sure wont give a sh!t if it is traveling a few hundred feet per second faster. My very next trip to the range I noticed a big difference in the accuracy of the below max loads, especially handgun loads. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenden Posted December 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 hey AZ, thanks for the link. I used to want all the velocity i could have, thats why i got a 7mag. After it kicked the $h^t outta me with factory loads, i got into hand loading. My load for it is 60 grains imr 4350 w/a mag primer, federal cases, and a 140 sierria spt. Kick is alot less than factory, and its more accurate, 5 shots, 1/2 @100yrds. I just started reloading this summer, read all i could about it, talked to others then bought my press and dies. I absolutly love it. All my loads are well under max, i talked to a guy the other day and he said, "if my gun can't shoot max loads or a grain over, i wont have it!" i though to myself, man your not wraped to tight. I've shot alot of deer in my time with a 243 remington 700, and my t/c 7mag. None of those deer knew what cal. i was shooting, and all were as dead as dead could be. I'm gonna work up some loads w/imr 4350 in the 243, but i've been wanting to try hodgen powders as well so i'm on that site right now lookin around. Thanks a bunch az. I'll shot some loads tomorrow or friday and let you know the results. My shoulder is sore from yesturday, 20 rounds through the 7.62x54 is hard on me, but hey i love seeing the dirt fly Brenden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenden Posted December 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 loaded up some ammo this evening...imr 4350- 41grains-42-43grains...not much space left in shell after stuffin all that in there..we'll its plenty actually...just used to there being a void i guess. Gonna shoot tomorrow or friday weather premitting. hopefully all goes well. will post results. brenden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenden Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 hey guyes. shot the .243 yesturday with wonderful results. Imr 4350 is the $h*t in that gun. 41 grains provided about an 1inch a 100, 42- about 1/2 inch and 43 grains was 3 shots one hole. Loaded up 50 rounds for the neighbor boy last night, ran outta powder, got some today so now its time for me! Thanks to all of those that helped me find this wonder load. Brenden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 MD, when you get your new can of powder don't forget to back off a grain or only load five or so and test. A Square found a bigger variation between powder lots than a grain or more of powder. In other words the new can of powder may just not shoot the same. Watch those powder lot numbers and save them for special cartridge loads. A new lot may be fine, but it also may not look anything at all like the other lot performance. Just one more thing to make you crazy in this hobby.... Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzRednek Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 MD, when you get your new can of powder don't forget to back off a grain or only load five or so and test. A Square found a bigger variation between powder lots than a grain or more of powder. In other words the new can of powder may just not shoot the same. Watch those powder lot numbers and save them for special cartridge loads. A new lot may be fine, but it also may not look anything at all like the other lot performance. Just one more thing to make you crazy in this hobby.... Brad Good advice, especially if shooting near max. What I like to do and there will likely be some disagreement among other reloaders. I like to mix the old and new together if I have enough, say a quarter pound or more of the old powder. Naturally good common sense says to back of slightly and see what it does if you're near max. I usually load pretty mild for rifles unless I'm working on a hunting load. I haven't seen allot of variation on the rifle powder loads I've used but it might be different if I loaded more max loads. Handgun loads though different story altogether. I've seen proven hot pet loads back primers out from another batch, especially Unique and Herco powders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenden Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 and this is what does make me go crazy. i have some old powder left, and az, i thought of mixing it w/ the new. i can understand where your coming from. I'll back er off a few and see what happenes, because i'm only about .5 from max. thanks all. Brenden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 What Az suggests seems logical and I used to do the same. You should be "easing" into a new load. May be be right. Anymore though, if I have a bit of an old can left, I just burn it outside get a new can and drop back and start over. Sooner of later you're going to have to do it anyway. Good support for the idea of buying two or more cans at the same time and checking lot numbers. Whatever works and doesn't blow up in your face is good, I always say. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jverduce Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Hello all. Got a problem and a question. I deserve to be ridiculed because of what i've done...its stupid. ok... got some 87 grain hornady hpbt for a 243. Hi Brenden, After reading all the posts, I felt compelled to add my 2 cents worth in. I spend a lot of time between the loading and shooting bench and the .243 is one cartridge that is real persnickitive depending on the brass you are using. It's not that one is necessarily better then another but the case volumes are just a smidgeon different. These small differences make BIG differences in the .243 pressures. (More than another cartridge I have worked with!) Powders, primers and bullets are all variables you need to focus on but pick one brand of brass and work up your loads only using them. Most book loads I have seen are with Winchester brass but I have tons of Federal so that is what I stay with. Works for me.You will have a lot less headaches. One other thing to keep in mind also when loading firebreathers, what is safe at 30 degrees F. during deer season might just lock up your bolt at 85 degrees F. while shooting woodchucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 It's been several years since I loaded for 243, but still load for its brother 6MM. I've got to agree with the guys recommending 4350 (I prefer IMR over Hodgdon). Everybody thinks slower powders are for the Magnums, but that's not true. I like to find a powder that just fills the case at medium load. That way, light load is around 90% capacity and max load is lightly compressed. The gurus (and I agree) that this is more consistent (standard deviation) than 80% or less loads. 4895 is just too fast, and doesn't fill the case, producing wider standard deviation. I'll also ditto that a deer can't tell the difference between 200fps. That's generally the range on light to max loads. Look for accuracy, not velocity. Trajectory doesn't change that much either. I also agree with waterdogz on watching out for hot loads developed in cold weather. That same load will pop primers in the middle of August. Ask me how I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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