Anti-sporterization

[Doble Troble]

Alright guys, I haven't come back from the dark side, so don't worry. I think we should do with our rifles what makes sense in-terms of the job that we need them to do.

 

With that in mind, I have stumbled into an opportunity to hunt black bear this winter on a large peanut farm near the coast here in Eastern North Carolina.

 

Yogi is a new challenge and of course the opportunity started the typical process of what gun should I use. I usually love this process because it leads to a new project. This case is no different: I've got a closet full of Masuers in something 30 cal and under. My 8 mm-Steyr seems like overkill. What would the perfect cartridge be?

 

The answer is obvious: 8 x 57 mm.

 

I've got a shop full of rifles chambered in 8 x 57 mm, but none of them are sporterized. It would be a shame to put a scope on this rifle intended for bear because Yogi lives in the brush out here. Shots over 100 yd are unheard of. A scope would just get in the way. So open sights are called for. Standard receiver sights might be a bit dark for the swamps I'll be in, so open sights are the way to go. Standard Mauser sights suck for target shooting, but they're reasonable open sights, so maybe I should just stick with them.

 

I've got a pile of 185 gr Rem corelocks that I luckly stocked up on before prices skyrocketed, so I want to use them. The problem is that they were designed for 8 mm Rem Mag and may not expand at modest velocity. So I've got to load the 8 x 57 up. There isn't much data on these 185 CLs for the 8 mm and so I'm kind-of on my own to work up a load. The guy on RealGuns.com has some interesting info, and I've loaded to 47 gr AA2495 myself without pressure signs. Using my best non-sported Mauser, a Yugo K98 refurb, and seating the 185 CLs out to just barely off the lands to minimize pressure, I worked-up to 49 gr from there. Additional experiments showed that 49.3 gr was a slight accuracy improvement. I didn't chronograph these loads, but I suspect they're doing about 2750 fps. This should open these bullets up, and although recoil is flirting with dramatic, there aren't pressure signs. I've seen flatter primers out of factory 270 ammo.

 

So now I have sights and a load. What about the rifle? It makes sense to keep using the Yugo refurb K98. Maybe I should cut a pound by restocking and getting rid of the military paraphenalia? But the damn thing shoots accurately with everything attached. The only problem is oozing cosmoline when it heats up from shooting. But this might actually be an advantage in the swamp. It might be nice to not carry so much weight, but without a scope it doesn't weigh much more than a standard hunting rifle, and is less bulky. Although I'm fortunate to actually kind-of enjoy recoil, I'm not interested in developing a flinch, especially when an agile, fast and well-clawed opponent is in play.

 

So what is the ideal rifle for this bear hunt?

 

Take a look and see:

 

 

A box-stock K98K, loaded for bear. The issue sights are just a bit high at 100 yds set at 200 - PERFECT. I can't wait!

[wfpack14]

Shoot Yogi with the Yugo as is, that would be cool as all get out.....

[karlunity]

If I only had to pick one of my Mausers, it would be Mickey Mauser the k98k.

 

It is the most accurate of my Mausers for off hand shooting with full power loads.

 

Judging from that paper plate, yours is also good.

 

karl

[Bob58]

I carried a lightened, sportered Argentine 1909 the times I hunted bear in the Nantahala region of western North Carolina. It was nothing more than a cast off 20 inch, 30-06 Mark X barrel in an Arg carbine stock. Just for fun I put on a walnut forend. Sights included a Lyman SME 57 receiver sight and hooded Lyman front sight. I generally carried it slung upside down. I used handloaded 220gr.

 

It was much lighter than your k98. Howver, I was going either up or down - you'll be walking on flat ground. Hopefully the pictures attached -

[cold shot]

Hey Bob,like the dog,oh and the gun too. I like my vz24 as.

 

Hi DT, Like your yugo. I have one that's rechambered to the 8-06.

Throws them 185 rem pspcl's at 2850 w/med load. Haven't had the chance for bear

yet, but the 8mm' are killer for Russian boar out here. enjoy your hunt.

Wished I was goin.

[AzRednek]

For hunting in brush the ol stand-by, the 30/30 is hard to beat. Even with a 30/30 it might be difficult because Yogi is smarter than the average bear. It wouldn't be sportsman like to bait him with picnic baskets.

[Spiris]

I'm going to buck the trend here and recommend using one of your lever action rifles that I know that you have mentioned before. If it's wooded area, they are still relevant and a lot easier to carry than the mauser, if you're still hunting. If you hunt from a blind or stand, then anything will work.

 

Spiris

[Bob58]

I'm going to buck the trend here and recommend using one of your lever action rifles that I know that you have mentioned before. If it's wooded area, they are still relevant and a lot easier to carry than the mauser, if you're still hunting. If you hunt from a blind or stand, then anything will work.

 

Spiris

 

 

You're exactly right Spiris - the guide carried a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem. with a tape-repaired wrist. But how fun is that? It only requires a trip to Wal Mart or the used rack at the local gunshop. On the other hand, refurbing 336's can be fun.

[spec4 e4]

Hey, I have an thought, why don't you get an scout scope mount and put an low power red dot scope on it. Like an 2 or 3X. Just an thought. Go over to Bill's site and look around for the best mount.

 

Rob

[spec4 e4]

Hey, I have an thought, why don't you get an scout scope mount and put an low power red dot scope on it. Like an 2 or 3X. Just an thought. Go over to Bill's site and look around for the best mount. The scout scope mount replace the rear sight.

 

Rob

[Doble Troble]

why don't you get an scout scope mount and put an low power red dot scope on it.

 

I suppose I could carry extra batteries, but why?

 

I wonder if Yogi would agree to take a break while I install them?

 

Thanks for suggestions everyone, and the excellent pix Bob58. I thought about the dirty thirty, it and a 45 colt are the only lever repeaters i've got - the 38-55 would be a perfect cartridge, but the rifle I have is single-shot with a long, heavy 30" bbl.

 

I know that black bear isn't a grizzly, but everytime I've gotten close to one I seem to forget. I would feel naked with a 30-30. I'm going to feel exposed with the Mauser.

 

karl, that's a 5" paper plate. I figure this is a 3" load with my eyes and issue Mauser sights. I almost feel sorry for Yogi (but then I start wondering about how he's going to taste).

 

The trigger is probably 6', but it breaks clean - what's not to like? The only thing I really need is a sling - can anyone recommend a source?

[tinkerfive]

We take a number of Black Bear here In Pennsylvania.

The state record a few years ago was taken with a 30-30.

That's not what I'd want to go after Black Bear with.

As I was reading your first post I was thinking at least a .30 cal.

I don't have any argument with the 8X57 out of the Yugo.

I know you have the 185's, if it were me I'd want to be throwing

220 grains.

Just remember that you are going after something that might weigh

350# and if you don't stop it with the first shot; that would be 350#

of pissed off bear swinging 2" claws and teeth too.

 

Tinker

[Doble Troble]

I'm not going to be able to run faster than the 20-something local I'll be hunting with.

 

Dammit, tinker now I'm going to have to also pack my 45LC blackhawk loaded with 300 gr FP at about 1300 fps.

 

The bears here are running in the mid-300s like up there in PA. But the 500+ pound animal is not uncommon.

[AzRednek]

Just remember that you are going after something that might weigh

350# and if you don't stop it with the first shot; that would be 350#

of pissed off bear swinging 2" claws and teeth too.

 

Tinker

 

The new 450 or 444 Marlin would be the near perfect rifle for po'd bears.

[BradD]

350-400# bear? I'm thinking 404 Jeffrey.

 

I don't have any quarrel with bears, but I'm not taking a knife to fight with them.

 

Guess I'm getting old.

 

Brad

[z1r]

I'd feel pretty comfortable packing an 8x57. Those 185's are pretty tough. I've never had occassion to hunt with them though but hear that they were made for the 8mm Rem Mag and might be inclined not to expand at 8x57 velocities. Or so they say. I figure that at the ranges you'd shoot a bear with open sights the velocity ought to be about the same as the 200 yd residual if fired out of a Mag. That Blackhawk will certainly do the trick too.

[bcp477]

The Remington bullets will work fine in the load you have described. In fact, that load would work well for Elk, at moderate distances. It should be quite effective on Black Bear. As it happens, most Black Bears are taken at fairly short distances, especially in the Eastern US, often less than 100 yards. So, how comfortable are you with iron sights ? If not with the issue ones, then you could put a set of aftermarket sights on one of your Mausers...such as the Mojo aperture sights. These make fine short to moderate range hunting sights...and are great in the brush. That is, IF your eyes will still work with irons. Or, you could install a receiver sight, such as a Lyman 57 SME. That would also make for a very good brush gun setup. My eyes won't cooperate with irons anymore - so I recently changed to a long-eye relief 4x scope. That would be my other suggestion. If you NEED a scope...you definitely will NOT need high magnification....4x should be all you'll ever need for Black Bear. So, you could install an S&K "Insta-Mount" on one of your Mausers.....with a suitable LER scope. Makes for a terrific short to medium-distance setup...with no permanent alterations to your rifle. Lots of people have negative things to say about mounting a scope forward, such as "small field of view" complaints. The answer to that is : DON'T get crazy with the magnification. 9x is ridiculous on MOST rifles anyway....and certainly it is unnecessary on any rifle to be used mostly at distances of 250 yards or less. A 4x or lower LER scope will do nicely, for your purposes. If you keep the magnification at or below 4x, as well, it is usually possible to train yourself to shoot with BOTH eyes open...thus getting the largest field of view POSSIBLE.

 

Anyway, the choice is yours. Those are my thoughts on the subject.

[Bob58]

The Remington bullets will work fine in the load you have described. In fact, that load would work well for Elk, at moderate distances. It should be quite effective on Black Bear. As it happens, most Black Bears are taken at fairly short distances, especially in the Eastern US, often less than 100 yards. So, how comfortable are you with iron sights ? If not with the issue ones, then you could put a set of aftermarket sights on one of your Mausers...such as the Mojo aperture sights. These make fine short to moderate range hunting sights...and are great in the brush. That is, IF your eyes will still work with irons. Or, you could install a receiver sight, such as a Lyman 57 SME. That would also make for a very good brush gun setup. My eyes won't cooperate with irons anymore - so I recently changed to a long-eye relief 4x scope. That would be my other suggestion. If you NEED a scope...you definitely will NOT need high magnification....4x should be all you'll ever need for Black Bear. So, you could install an S&K "Insta-Mount" on one of your Mausers.....with a suitable LER scope. Makes for a terrific short to medium-distance setup...with no permanent alterations to your rifle. Lots of people have negative things to say about mounting a scope forward, such as "small field of view" complaints. The answer to that is : DON'T get crazy with the magnification. 9x is ridiculous on MOST rifles anyway....and certainly it is unnecessary on any rifle to be used mostly at distances of 250 yards or less. A 4x or lower LER scope will do nicely, for your purposes. If you keep the magnification at or below 4x, as well, it is usually possible to train yourself to shoot with BOTH eyes open...thus getting the largest field of view POSSIBLE.

 

Anyway, the choice is yours. Those are my thoughts on the subject.

 

 

If hunting with dogs open sights are preferable for the safety of the dogs - shot's will likely be <40 yards if bayed and even closer if treed.

 

If blind or sight/stalk hunting receiver sights or low power should be sufficient. I'd opt for low power scope if low light is expected due to early/late hunts or if primarily in shaded woods.

 

 

 

[roscoedoh]

Guys,

 

Black bears aren't bulletproof. A 30-30, 30-06, 8x57JS, 45 Colt, 44 Mag...anything you can shoot will kill them. Guys even kill them with bows and arrows.

 

It doesn't take a 50BMG to bring down a black bear - I don't care how big it is - all it takes is a good, clean shot to put your query down. Shoot whatever you can shoot accurately and go hunting.

 

*Next time someone starts bemoaning the size of large hogs and their toughness...remember what I wrote above. They're not bulletproof either.

[AzRednek]

Guys,

 

Black bears aren't bulletproof. A 30-30, 30-06, 8x57JS, 45 Colt, 44 Mag...anything you can shoot will kill them. Guys even kill them with bows and arrows.

 

Don't know if there is any truth to it or possibly it is an exaggurated war story. A former co-worker of mine and a WW2 vet told a tale of a group of elderly German farmers after or towards the end of the war going into the forrest with shovels and pitch forks in search of meat. He claimed they returned with a large bear.

[Bob58]

Guys,

 

Black bears aren't bulletproof. A 30-30, 30-06, 8x57JS, 45 Colt, 44 Mag...anything you can shoot will kill them. Guys even kill them with bows and arrows.

 

It doesn't take a 50BMG to bring down a black bear - I don't care how big it is - all it takes is a good, clean shot to put your query down. Shoot whatever you can shoot accurately and go hunting.

 

*Next time someone starts bemoaning the size of large hogs and their toughness...remember what I wrote above. They're not bulletproof either.

 

 

Agree.

 

* Will do.

[weaver77]

i thinks that using the stock yugo is a great idea especially if you arent having any problems with the issue open sights

i have one that i use as my truck gun only the stock has been shaveded down and i worked on the trigger the load i ended up using is 45.5 gr reloader 15 with a 175 gr sierra spitzer i regulated the load to the military sight adjustment and we can nock the bowling pins around with it at 300 yds

this load has preformed great on hogs up to about 275 lbs and i am getting good expansion on javilinas and coyotes with it but have not taken anything with it farther than about 125 yds

when loaded up to max with reloader 15 it was still an accurate load but was shooting several inches high

keep us informed on what you decide and how you hunt goes and good luck

 

james

 

 

ps how does bear meat taste ? i have yet to try it.

[donmarkey]

james

 

 

ps how does bear meat taste ? i have yet to try it.

 

Good if fresh, the biggest problem I've found with bear around here is that the guys drive around showing off the catch to there buddies for a couple days. You need to get it skinned ASAP so the meat will cool properly. It's too easy to ruin a good bear by waiting.

-Don

 

[weaver77]

Good if fresh, the biggest problem I've found with bear around here is that the guys drive around showing off the catch to there buddies for a couple days. You need to get it skinned ASAP so the meat will cool properly. It's too easy to ruin a good bear by waiting.

-Don

 

 

not wanting to high jack the post but is it greasy what does it compare to coonmeat ? do yall make bear sausge, salami or jerky bear burgers sound like the could fill you up

james

 

 

[724wd]

i've had bear salami that was good. also pepperoni and jerky. too greasy for meat, for me. i give most of it away...