What Passes As A "gunsmith" In The St. Louis Area

[rdm1962]

On my way back from Deer hunting on Monday I stopped for gas. In side the station there was a stack of business cards for a "gunsmith". I asked the clerk if he know the guy. "Oh yeah he's real good". I grabbed a card and went on my way. I've been looking for a real "Gunsmith" in the St. Louis area for 4 years now. My thought was to maybe get some hands on time with the stuff I've been sending to Clemson.

 

I called the guy. I tell him I'm going to need a barrel fitted and head spaced. I am also going to need a sporter bolt handle welded on. There is a long pause. "I've never done nothing like that before." "I'm a out of work machinist and am doing this to make ends meet." We talked for a bit. He mainly fits / replaces broken parts in Grad dads old shooter. I don't blame him for making a buck. Not a total loss. As we talked I did find out he puts together 1911's.

 

I would like to do more on my builds. I don't have the equipment needed or money to buy it. As it is it takes me 6+ months to finish what Bill starts for me. So I guess I'll still be sending my stuff off to Clemson.

Ralph

[Dr.Hess]

What about that gunsmith guy that writes articles in SGN? He's in So. Mo. somewhere, I think.

[karlunity]

The last fella I would call a "Gunsmith" John, went out of business a decade ago...retired.

He said the cost of tools, parts, machines and insurance required him to charge at a rate that only custom work would cover and that there was not enough of that to pay the bills.

The other so called "Gunsmith" down the block..was a thief.

I was in the store when he charged a fella 35 bucks to remove a case that was stuck in a chamber, casehead separation on a bolt action with the right tool, it took all of 30 seconds.

 

John would have done it for free if he knew you or charged $5 if he did not.

 

That is when I started to learn to fix my own guns.

 

karl

[FC]

There's nothing that I know of saying whether a guy is a qualified gunsmith or not other than word of mouth.

[rustvyper]

The last fella I would call a "Gunsmith" John, went out of business a decade ago...retired.

He said the cost of tools, parts, machines and insurance required him to charge at a rate that only custom work would cover and that there was not enough of that to pay the bills.

The other so called "Gunsmith" down the block..was a thief.

I was in the store when he charged a fella 35 bucks to remove a case that was stuck in a chamber, casehead separation on a bolt action with the right tool, it took all of 30 seconds.

 

John would have done it for free if he knew you or charged $5 if he did not.

 

That is when I started to learn to fix my own guns.

 

karl

 

I don't know how that's being a theif. The guy's not in it to be a friend to everyone. He's providing a service to the too stupid, or too lazy.

[karlunity]

don't know how that's being a thief. The guy's not in it to be a friend to everyone. He's providing a service to the too stupid, or too lazy.

 

rustvyper

 

 

To remove a stuck cartridge case after head separation:

A. attach the case puller to a rod.

B. Remove the bolt.

C. insert the tool into the case and pull.

 

I can do it faster than I can type it...charging $ 35 bucks for that is a ripoff even at todays prices.

 

20 years ago, when that was a day's pay it was thievery.

 

He may well have seen his customers as " too stupid, or too lazy. "

 

He did not stay in business too long...as I recall his main line was selling ammo.

once the Internet came about..he was gone and not missed.

 

karl

[gun nutty]

"I was in the store when he charged a fella 35 bucks to remove a case that was stuck in a chamber, casehead separation on a bolt action with the right tool, it took all of 30 seconds."

 

Most gunsmiths I've done business with have a "bench" fee; if you want to do business with them, you get to pay a minimum fee for that privilege. Last time I checked, my gunsmith had a $35 bench fee. He had it posted right on the wall right behind the check-in counter. While giving a customer a break is a good thing, too much "goodwill" can kill a business as quickly as it helps it.

 

 

"He said the cost of tools, parts, machines and insurance required him to charge at a rate that only custom work would cover and that there was not enough of that to pay the bills."

 

Absolutely. A gunsmith has to keep a roof over his head like everyone else. I'll gladly pay a $35 base charge to keep the guy down the road in business, as I'll be paying much more in shipping and handling mailing my firearms across the country.

 

The "thief" gunsmith made an error: he should have told the customer "come back in an hour, it's going to take a bit to set things up". He should have then immediately removed the stuck case in the back room away from the other customers. He needs to do a better job at maintaining the mystique of being a gunsmith.

[karlunity]

Free country...but as I said that is why I learned to fix my own guns.

The pastor said that a fella was supposed to charge a fair price.

Not what ever the traffic would bear.

I think that I will stick with that.

 

"He had it posted right on the wall right behind the check-in counter."

gun nutty

 

The fella I am speaking of did NOT have such a sign posted.

 

 

karl

[gun nutty]

If he wasn't up front on his costs, shame on him.

 

Or maybe everyone just got a bill starting at $35, and he spent a good amount of time explaining his costs to angry customers after the fact. That's bad business.

 

I'm with you, and I'm willing to spend some time and research to fix things before I hit that $35 threshold. Many folks have neither the time nor the experience. I also know gents who should never touch a screwdriver for fear of injuring themselves or others.

 

You wouldn't believe the number of sportsman I've talked to who pay a gunsmith top dollar annually before hunting or trap season to CLEAN and LUBRICATE their shotguns and rifles. As you said, "free country".

[rustvyper]

don't know how that's being a thief. The guy's not in it to be a friend to everyone. He's providing a service to the too stupid, or too lazy.

 

rustvyper

 

 

To remove a stuck cartridge case after head separation:

A. attach the case puller to a rod.

B. Remove the bolt.

C. insert the tool into the case and pull.

 

I can do it faster than I can type it...charging $ 35 bucks for that is a ripoff even at todays prices.

 

20 years ago, when that was a day's pay it was thievery.

 

He may well have seen his customers as " too stupid, or too lazy. "

 

He did not stay in business too long...as I recall his main line was selling ammo.

once the Internet came about..he was gone and not missed.

 

karl

 

I guess I come from the school of thought that if enough people are willing to pay for it, there must be a legit market.

However, there are plenty of people who think "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." It's America, you can think that.

[lemski4]

As far as the topic at hand, I'd say someone who has completed a Gunsmithing program at one of the many colleges around the country, and not one of the corespondents courses through the mail or internet, for starters.

[karlunity]

" "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." "

 

Nothing to do with Marxism sir...simply "fair Play".

 

Old John stayed in business from the end of WW ll till about 2000 I think.

The other fella was gone in a year or so.

 

People don't like being ripped off and seldom return to a shop that does that.

I did not buy a lot of guns from John, did not have the money, but I did spend about $ 50 a week in his place for parts and ammo and things as did other fellas and that adds up.

 

I and I suspect others only went to the other shop for mil sup ammo if John was out.

Once we could get that on the net,he was a bad memory.

On the other hand, I would still go to John for parts or stuff, even if it was a few bucks cheaper on the net as it was a good place to visit....I often ended up buying stuff, I did not know I needed..things of great value..a box of 8mm stripper clips..stuff the Hippy, being a good wife,..called "More gun junk". : )

 

Treat people as friends and neighbors and they come back ...treat them as suckers you will soon close your doors.

 

karl

[karlunity]

As to smiths, I guess the only way that you can is by word of mouth until you see their work.

 

I would agree that I would, in most cases, prefer a school or apprentice trained person to one who took a mail order class.

 

karl

[lemski4]

Even 20 years age, 35.00 wasn't even close to a days pay, not to mention rent on a store front, water, gas ect on said building, and FFL fees. A guy comes to you with a useless gun, and 35.00 later he has a fully functional gun, what the hell? I know I wouldn't have done it in front of him while he waited, but their are no guarantees it's a slam dunk every time just because you think you have the right tool. A guy brought me a rifle to mount a scope on that the scope mount plug screws were stuck, after he tried to do it him self and buggered up one screw, good thing he stopped where he did. It took 2 1/4 hours to get the four screws out with out messing up the threads, and about 15 minutes to mount the scope. What do you think a fare price to charge for doing that is?

[rdm1962]

WOW guys. I was just trying to say that all you guy are lucky. We don't have anyone (that I can find ) with in a 100 miles to tread a barrel or weld on a bolt handle. If anyone wants to relocate I'll be your first customer. If not, Clemson will be getting my work.

Ralph

[karlunity]

Hum...Lets see.. 35 bucks for a 30 second job round that to a buck a second.

Which is what the thief charged.

 

Now at the rate your 2. 5 hour job would cost lets see 60 seconds to the min times 150 minutes = 9000 seconds.

At the rate the "Thief" charged that would be $9000.

 

I am rather sure that you did not charge the fella $9000 for repairing his mistakes and mounting a scope.

 

As to a fair price $ 40 per hour and tool time so about $ 90 would be a fair price...as long as you gave a fair estimate in advance of doing the work.

 

John would have called me up and said "Karl you really screwed this thing up, who ever gave you the idea that you know how to fix a gun? This is going to take me a while to fix and cost between x and y bucks..what do you want to do?"

 

That sir is fair play.

 

As to 35 bucks not being a days pay back than for most folks, you are right.

I stand corrected.

So lets say a fella got $8 per hour back then...that would be $64 per day gross.

So at $ 35 for a 30 second job...it came to a bit less than a half a days pay for a 30 second job.

 

Any way as we said it is a free country and that being so a fella is free to charge what he wills and another fella is free to hire him or not.

That is what makes this America.

 

karl

[lemski4]

All I can say is WOW

[lemski4]

I think I'd rather deal with a gunsmith that charges more than 8.00 an hour, even back in the early '90's.

[Dr.Hess]

I had a stuck case in my 22 Hornet Contender once. The max charge, per the books, was to basically fill the case to the top with 296 and push a bullet down. Shot real tight. Anyway, I had a case head separation, my first ever in at the time, about 30 years of shooting. I took it to the local gun shop and the gunsmith took a 1/4"x20 tap, screwed it down the hole, grabbed it with some slip joint pliers and pulled it right out. I asked him how much and he said "no charge." I would have gladly given him 10 or even 20 bucks, not only for getting the cartridge out but for teaching me how to do it. I now carry a 1/4"x20 tap in my "range box," and I've had to use it once or twice since.

[karlunity]

The fella I went to was like that.

I first went to him looking for a adjustable trigger for a 1917 Enfield. I had yet to hear of places like "gunparts corp" Told him what I needed..and he told me to go look in a drawer of parts..found an old trigger with a piece added to the lip for an adjustment screw..he told me how he had made a lot of them back in the 50s and 60s and how the NRA sold a lot of those rifles...part was about $10...He stayed there a few more years and retired..been there since the end of WW ll. Cali was getting anti gun and he did not care for that..plus they were building developments out around his shop..had been rural back in the 40s and the antis did not like having a gun shop in their area.

 

karl

[stevyn]

HHMMMMMM

well you know what Mr. Barnum said, right? As for what makes a Gunsmith?

A. He's gone to that really kewl school in AZ.

B. He's been doing the work on his own since he a was a lil tyke at his fathers knee.

C. Cause his name is Bubba.

I would use the first 2 .Most likly I'd do it myself cause I like working on firearms. The older and rustier the better. I haven't bought a firearm in the last 20 yrs that didn't look like it came from Davy Jone's locker. They all are or were in Rack grade when I finished and looked and fired safely very well. But, I'm no gunsmith. I feel the charge was apropreiate for the situation, who else would do it? Was the guy in a hurry? On vacation, and wanted to get back to range,Hunting, whatever?