Scarf (Hijab) Or A Turban Ok For Jrotc

[karlunity]

scarf (hijab) or a turban ok for jrotc

 

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The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) announced today that the Department of Defense will begin allowing Muslim and Sikh students who wear an Islamic head scarf (hijab) or a turban to participate in the Junior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps (JROTC).

“We welcome the fact that Muslim and Sikh students nationwide will now be able to participate fully in JROTC leadership activities while maintaining their religious beliefs and practices,” said CAIR National Executive Director Nihad Awad.

In October, the Washington-based Muslim civil rights and advocacy organization wrote to Defense Secretary Leon Panetta after a 14-year-old Muslim student at Ravenwood High School in Brentwood, Tenn., was forced to transfer out of a JROTC class when her commanding officers told her she could not wear hijab while marching in the September homecoming parade.

CAIR requested constitutionally-protected religious accommodations for the girl and for future Muslim JROTC participants.

In a Dec. 19 letter sent to CAIR, Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army Larry Stubblefield wrote:

”I have been asked to respond on behalf of the Secretary of Defense Leon E. Panetta to your October 13, 2011 letter concerning Miss Demin Zawity’s request to wear a religious head covering (hijab) while participating in an Army Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps (JROTC) event at Ravenwood High School.

“Based on your concerns, the Army has reviewed its JROTC uniform policy and will develop appropriate procedures to provide Cadets the opportunity to request the wear of religious head dress, such as the turban and hijab. This change will allow Miss Zawity and other students the chance to fully participate in the JROTC program. Additionally, a representative from the U.S. Army Cadet Command will contact Miss Zawity and provide her the opportunity to rejoin the Ravenwood High School JROTC unit.

“The Army prides itself in being a diverse organization, comprised of individuals from many faiths and religions. We appreciate you bringing this matter to our attention.”

 

 

 

Thank God I was a MARINE...what the hell is the Army coming to?

karl

[ken98k]

When I was in the Army in the late 70s there was a persistent rumor going round about a guy that wore a turban and carried a sword because of religious convictions.

When I got posted to Ft. Drum to assist with annual training I actually saw the guy there. He was a buck sergeant at the time. Although I never saw him with a sword he did in fact have a full beard and a turban.

[gun nutty]

He was probably a Sikh:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh

 

He probably had a small dagger (kirpan) tucked away in his waistband.

[gitano]

Forum rules and basic decorum prevent me from fully expressing myself on this. The nicest I can say is that it infuriates me. It is only slightly less infuriating than the decision to allow women on submarines.

 

I got this in my email today. It goes directly to this stupidity...

 

Michael Richards makes hispoint...and whether we like it or not, he is telliing the truth.

 

 

 

Michael Richards better known as Kramer from TVs Seinfeld does make a good point.

 

 

 

This was his defense speech incourt after making racial comments in his comedy act.

 

 

 

He makes some very interesting points...

 

 

 

Someone finally said it. Howmany are actually paying attention to this?

 

 

 

There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.

 

 

 

And then there are just Americans.. You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction.

 

 

 

You call me 'White boy,''Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman'... And that's OK...

 

 

 

But when I call you, Nigger, Kike, Towel head, Sand-nigger, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink .. You call me a racist.

 

 

 

You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you....

 

 

 

So why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?

 

 

You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day.

 

 

 

You have Black HistoryMonth.

 

 

 

You have Cesar Chavez Day.

 

 

 

You have Yom Hashoah.

 

 

 

You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.

 

 

 

You have the NAACP.

 

 

 

You have BET....

 

 

 

If we had WET (WhiteEntertainment Television), we'd be racists.

 

 

 

If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.

 

 

 

If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.

 

 

 

If we had any organization foronly whites to 'advance' OUR lives, we'd be racists.

 

 

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamberof Commerce.

 

 

 

Wonder who pays for that??

 

 

 

A white woman could not be inthe Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.

 

 

 

If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships... You know we'd be racists.

 

 

 

There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US ..

 

 

 

Yet if there were 'White colleges', that would be a racist college.

 

 

 

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights.

 

 

 

If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.

 

 

 

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it.

 

 

 

But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.

 

 

 

You rob us, car jack us, and shoot at us.

 

 

 

But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.

 

 

 

Why is it that only whites can be racists??

 

I'm sick of all of this BS! SICK OF IT! But, most of the 20-something generation "swallows" all of this racist and "diversity" BS "hook-line-and-sinker".

 

 

 

 

Paul

[rdm1962]

I was in JROTC 1976 to 1980. I attended a Catholic all male high school, Christin Brothers College H. S (CBC). It was a school known for excellent quality education. We had several Jewish class mates that wore a Ya mica under their Garrison Caps. They were good friend and we never thought twice about it. I know we have never had Israel attack us. Couldn't this be a step to include these youngsters into The American tapestry. Wasn't one of the hightest decorated units in WWII made up of Japanese American soldiers. Many of whom were in internment camps before they enlisted? I see what the big deal is.

Ralph

[karlunity]

OK. so this is 1942 and I want to join the Marines, but I must be allowed to wear my 1000 stitch headband.

After all, Shinto is an old and established religion and the Mikado is god.

 

You want me working on the Manhattan Project?

 

The Japanese Americans were sent to fight the Germans not their fellow Japanese.

 

We are fighting muslams..The Koran allows one to lie to unbelievers it does NOT allow a good Muslim to wage war on the side of the infidel against Islam.

 

Now, if this person's religious identity is so strong to her that she insists on wearing her hijab in America..if she is that committed to the Koran and Islam, just WHO do you think she is gonna shoot, indeed MUST shoot given the chance?

Karl

 

P.S.

I have to add that it is not Secretary of Defense Leon E. Panetta life that is at risk, unless he has hijab wearing troops serving in HIS office but the lives of that troops that must go into battle.

 

PPS. You can bet that ANY hijab wearing troops that get any were near high ranking pols will be VERY well vetted by the Secret Service. One must not carry this sort of thing too far mustn't one.

[mp6.5]

Karl, First off I must tell you that the Japanese-American Soldiers were in the Pacific during WWII. Like the Navaho "Wind talkers" the "Nisei"(Japanese-Americans)were used in Secret. Just who do you think interpreted on the Spot? Who talked the Imperial Soldiers out of the caves? So much more is not known by the General Public. My Father drove a Landing Craft in the Pacific and shuttled them back and forth. Fight as a unit, no. Important work, you betcha.

As for the Sikhs, I live in a part of Northern California that is home to many Sikhs. A finer group of Honorable People I have yet to meet. Honor, personal honor is a religious thing for the Sikhs. They have a long History of Loyalty to whom they serve Militatily. They are NOT Muslim, they are Sikhs from the Punjab in India. I see no reason why a Sikh in High School can not wear a Turban in Junior ROTC; they are kids. When an Adult Sikh Joins the Military he has to choose, will he wear his Turban and Beard and stand out, or will he cut his hair and shave and blend in and be Uniform. Once he decides he cannot change his mind. This only applys to those who were born Sikh, all other followers of the Sikh religion must cut their hair and shave.

Now as for the Muslims, I cannot speak for them. In my 20 Plus years I knew, worked for, worked with, and had working for me, Palistinians,Pakistanis, Arabs. They were as good and as bad as any other group. Some were my friends and others are alive because I was Not allowed to kill them. Those who were "Sufi" were always reasonable.

I am glad I don't have to decide.

[karlunity]

Karl, First off I must tell you that the Japanese-American Soldiers were in the Pacific during WWII. Like the Navaho "Wind talkers" the "Nisei"(Japanese-Americans)were used in Secret. Just who do you think interpreted on the Spot? Who talked the Imperial Soldiers out of the caves? So much more is not known by the General Public. My Father drove a Landing Craft in the Pacific and shuttled them back and forth. Fight as a unit, no. Important work, you betcha.

As for the Sikhs, I live in a part of Northern California that is home to many Sikhs. A finer group of Honorable People I have yet to meet. Honor, personal honor is a religious thing for the Sikhs. They have a long History of Loyalty to whom they serve Militarily. They are NOT Muslim, they are Sikhs from the Punjab in India. I see no reason why a Sikh in High School can not wear a Turban in Junior ROTC; they are kids. When an Adult Sikh Joins the Military he has to choose, will he wear his Turban and Beard and stand out, or will he cut his hair and shave and blend in and be Uniform. Once he decides he cannot change his mind. This only applies to those who were born Sikh, all other followers of the Sikh religion must cut their hair and shave.

Now as for the Muslims, I cannot speak for them. In my 20 Plus years I knew, worked for, worked with, and had working for me, Palistinians,Pakistanis, Arabs. They were as good and as bad as any other group. Some were my friends and others are alive because I was Not allowed to kill them. Those who were "Sufi" were always reasonable.

I am glad I don't have to decide.

 

You had a few working in those fields. I don't think that they were wearing a "thousand stitch" headband or praying to the emperor.

 

but the larger Japanese American combat units were in Europe for the reasons I wrote of. This is about Islam and the fact that we are waging war against Muslims.

 

Sikhs so far as I know are not Muslims. Still in the Corps, unless things have changed a lot, there is one rule for all. If those rules are against your religion, don't join.

 

The points about religious freedom were valid when we had a draft, but even then allowances were made. Now? No.

 

As far as Islam..it is easy to sit in DC and issue PC guide lines..makes things warm and fuzzy...and one can feel so superior at the "club".

Tell that to the survivors after the suicide bomber has gone off..or to the remains of a unit, that a Muslim supply officer "Accidentally" sent 7.62 when they called for 5.56. So sorry.

 

Note..I don't blame the Muslim, I would shoot him or her, but I don't blame them their religion requires such action and they told you that up front, from their pov, It is even noble and heroic. It is in the Koran, not their fault if we don't read it.

 

It is our own arrogant pride I fear.

PC is all very well, makes us feel better..until it starts getting our people killed.

 

 

 

 

"I am glad I don't have to decide."

 

I can decide real quick as the kids say a no-brainer.

 

"We cannot in justice to You or our troops put you in a position where you would have to make the tragic choice between your oath to the Constitution and your duty to Allah. Your request, after due and careful consideration, is rejected.

we applaud your desire to serve and are forwarding you information on the Peace Corps.

Karl Sec of Defense.

 

We did not start this. The Islamics did on 9/11.

So if this young person feels rejected or discriminated against she can thank her fellow Muslims. It is THEIR actions not ours that have put her in this position.

Karl

[gun nutty]

I'm with karlunity, although with slightly different reasons.

 

Our troops are provided with the best protective gear available: gas masks protect service personnel during chemical and biological attacks, oxygen breathing apparatuses (OBAs) protect Sailors while fighting fires aboard ships, and helmets/body armor protect all during hostile and defensive action.

 

Beards limit the effectiveness of both gas masks and OBAs. Turbans and head coverings interfere with the full donning of helmets. Wearing special undergarments or religious trinkets against the body could impede the operation of body armor, increase heat stress, or increase the the damage to the individual when the body armor actually absorbs a strike. Exposed long hair or beards can catch fire and cause even more severe burns.

 

Wearing these items is not an "option". Wearing protective gear allows a service member to continue the mission and improve the effective reach of our country. Having someone say "Well, if it's my time, it's my time. I just won't wear the gear, or I can partially wear it" doesn't cut it and could impede the ability of our combat teams to perform their missions.

 

The military certainly makes allowances: yarmulkes are allowed if they fit under headgear and aren't visible, beards are allowed due to medical conditions if trimmed short (and subject to revocation at the command level). This is covered very effectively in DOD Directive 1300.17:

 

www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/130017p.pdf

 

Paragraphs 7, 8, and 10 are interesting. Much of this issue is determined by the local leadership in its ability to carry out its mission. Paragraph 11 sets it outright:

 

"11. Nothing in this guidance or in the Military Department documents authorized by section 4 of

this enclosure (except when expressly provided therein) shall be interpreted as requiring a

specific form of accommodation in individual circumstances."

 

 

How does this apply to JROTC? I'm really not sure. I'd like to see the standards uniform for ALL individuals wearing our country's service uniforms. Not having it standard isn't fair to those required to actually adhere to existing standards.

[karlunity]

The Koran allows one to lie to unbelievers it does NOT allow a good Muslim to wage war on the side of the infidel against Islam.

 

I know...I know..

 

There ARE Muslims who are helping us and fighting other Muslims.

But from their POV they are using US in their fight against Muslim heretics.

 

Sort of like the IRA using a German demo expert, even if he is a Lutheran, to blow up a British base.

Karl

[ken98k]

As for the Sikhs, I live in a part of Northern California that is home to many Sikhs. A finer group of Honorable People I have yet to meet. Honor, personal honor is a religious thing for the Sikhs. They have a long History of Loyalty to whom they serve Militatily. They are NOT Muslim, they are Sikhs from the Punjab in India. I see no reason why a Sikh in High School can not wear a Turban in Junior ROTC; they are kids. When an Adult Sikh Joins the Military he has to choose, will he wear his Turban and Beard and stand out, or will he cut his hair and shave and blend in and be Uniform. Once he decides he cannot change his mind. This only applys to those who were born Sikh, all other followers of the Sikh religion must cut their hair and shave.

 

 

"In the last two world wars 83,005 turban wearing Sikh soldiers were killed and 109,045 were wounded. They all died or were wounded for the freedom of Britain and the world, and during shell fire, with no other protection but the turban, the symbol of their faith."

—General Sir Frank Messervy

 

"British people are highly indebted and obliged to Sikhs for a long time. I know that within this century we needed their help twice [in two world wars] and they did help us very well. As a result of their timely help, we are today able to live with honour, dignity, and independence. In the war, they fought and died for us, wearing the turbans."

—Sir Winston Churchill

[mp6.5]

How does this fit in with Junior ROTC. Well, JROTC is a class kids take that exposes them to what the Military is like. It is not the Military or a gateway to the Military. Some kids find that they don't like it. I encourage them NOT To Enlist.

Special clothing required by their Religion, talk to the Mormons about that. As to the Muslims there is No special clothing by the Koran as I was told. The Koran says to Dress Modestly; and what is Modestly anyway. Modesty is defined by the Culture you live in.

There are Sikhs in the "Corps", they opted for the Haircut and Shave. The other Branches when the Sikhs opt for the Turban and the Beard they opt for limiting their Opportunities in the Service of their Country.

Anyway the ruling was for Junior ROTC, High School, not ROTC, the 2Lt. factory.

Am I being PC? No, this old Platoon Sgt doesn't play that game. The Mission is first, but I can't do the Mission if my troops make mountains out of mole hills and can't cross those mountains until I show them they are really mole hills. In other words, find the problem and clear out the BS.

[karlunity]

You or I may not be into PCism I don't think that that can be said for Mr.Panetta .

 

karl