Guest Guest_Kenak2_* Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Does anyone have a good way to keep the barrel from slipping in my Wheeler barrel vice? I tried some lead shim stock which stuck to the wood blocks but not the barrel. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strkablaz Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Have you tried rosin? you can get it from Brownnells. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Someone said on the old board that they got a rosin bag used for gripping baseball bats,and cut it open to get the rosin.I've heard of using powdered sugar in a pinch.Good luck Kenny,and let us know the outcome.Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manureman Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Kenny, give it a good soaking with Kroil first thing. Next try the rosin like the other boys have said and I have even heard of some fellas having to epoxy the bushings to the barrel when using the Midway vise, but the thing I find works best for me on stubborn ones is to get the barrel as tight as possible in the vise, then instead of just trying to turn it off put about a 2ft. cheater bar on your wrench and put a fair amount of pressure on it and give the handle of your wrench a good fast sharp lick with a hammer, works kind of like a impact wrench .Most of the time I'm in no hurry and I just set the barreled action down in a 5gal. bucket of diesel action end first and let it soak but I have seen dry threads on a few after as long as 2 wks of soaking so I think the hammer blow is the real deal , nothing beats a bfh for this chore.Also heard a propane torch while not getting hot enough to hurt the reciever will give you enough heat to do it too but I'm not big on the idea and haven't done it myself. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgansBoss Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 The baseball style rosin bags do work. Its not necessary to cut it open but simply pat it on the bushings and barrel. The parts will be coated with the fine white powder. While not as sticky as the rosin sold by Brownells it does work and is easier to clean up. I've heard of folks using fiddle-bow rosin from music stores to. Not sure how much demand there is for pitcher's bags in your neck of the woods but I bet there's a music store there abouts. Might be worth a try. Any penetrating oil will help to lube the threads but MUST BE TOTALLY REMOVED from the point of vise contact. You didn't mention what type wrench you're using but a correctly fitting one can be at least as important as the vise. Mine is a simple home-made affair made from a two foot length of 1x2 steel with a U-bolt forged to perfectly fit the receiver. It is also important to clamp the vise as tight as possible and have it mounted tightly. Read all of this as - nothing can give but the barrel. In my own case, once the barrel is clamped and the wrench is tightened at about eleven o'clock, I whack the end of the wrench with a two-pound hammer. Just one solid whack is all it usually takes to get things moving on most Mausers. The added momentum of that heavy steel bar ("wrench") doesn't hurt! I regularly use sheet lead to avoid marking the parts but then I use a hydraulic jack in my home-made vise. Usually crushes the oak bushings and the lead squishes out like Ketchup from a stepped-on packet at McDonald's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donmarkey Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 I've had to epoxy the bushing to a stubborn barrel before. That barrel also took me on a 10' cheater bar while a friend hit with a 5lb. sledge. We were lifting my 300lb bench of the ground and had to bolt it to the concrete. I use a all metal vice with aluminum bushings now. Homemade, but exactly like brownells, that way I can use their bushings. -Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyridge1123 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Lead shims with rosin have worked if I put the vice in a press. The wooden blocks would break after one or two guns. The last one I removed, a Yugo 24, I had my machine shop make metal blocks that hold Brownells bushings. Even with rosin and a press I needed to put a line of weld on the barrel to keep it from turning. This one was so tight it took two people, a 4 foot pipe and a bfh to get it loose. Good luck. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken98k Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Thanks for the tips. I'm going to try the epoxy trick first, then maybe welding a bead on the barrel. I'm kind of anxiuos to get started on this project while I have some warm weather. The last barrel I pulled I used my pipe/chain vise which worked but bent the barrel. I have a Wheeler action wrench that seems to work but this vise is going to get overhauled before my next project. I'm going to replace the wood blocks with aluminum. Boes anyone use a B-Square vise? What's the hole diameter? I'll post later tonight how things went. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Limpid Lizard Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Most of my tooling is shop built. This Mauser is my current project. While the barrel vise is not completely visible, the method I use to hold it is. The vise shown in similar to the one I use to pull military profile barrels. The difference is that this vise takes aluminum shims, while the one for stepped barrels just has a hole that is a tight fit on the largest step. I cut a rough thread in the hole to provide a little bite. Note that while this works well, I have no intention of saving the barrels I take off with it. www2.propichosting.com/Images/450009410/8.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Limpid Lizard Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 I screwed up the pic post, and do not know how to edit on this board. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoedoh Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Kenak, I use a B-Square type barrel vise with much success. (That is, I use a $20 garage sale barrel vise that's bushed to use B-Square bushings.) If you have a lathe or access to one, buy a couple B-Square bushings and a couple pieces of square stock and make yourself one. You'll like it; a lot. And, you can tighten it down tight enough that you'll break something before it slips. I put a cheater bar on the box end wrench I use to tighten the bolts on mine; works everytime.... I screwed up the pic post, and do not know how to edit on this board. LL Sir, if you log in you'll be offered a whole host of editing options that you can't otherwise do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgansBoss Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Here's mine although its only held in the bench vise for photo purposes. Its normally securely bolted to a very heavy bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoedoh Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 MB, I'm going to make a setup like that for myself once I finally get into a house where I can put a work bench. I think bottle jacks are a great thing for this use! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiris Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 The Shotgun news Mauser edition that came out, has a some good pics of the bottle jack set up that the author of the article uses. The whole edition was good reading. Spiris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken98k Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 UPDATE; If you thought you could hear somebody cussing way off in the distance, it was probably me! I applied 2 part epoxy to the barrel and wooden blocks, re-clamped, then waited 2 hours. After tightening the vise a lot more, I tried it but, the barrel broke free from the blocks right away. Next I brazed a couple 1/16" steel rods lengthwise to the barrel, they stripped out the wooden blocks. After that I went to work on another project I think this vise will probably work if I replace the wood blocks with steel or aluminum ones with bushings. I don't remember what I paid for this thing, but with shipping to Alaska I've probably got more than $50 into it, so I hate to give up on it to quickly. Thanks for all the input. I'll let you know how things work out. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donmarkey Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Try grinding flats in the barrel and install in the vice without bushings. -Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strkablaz Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 UPDATE; If you thought you could hear somebody cussing way off in the distance, it was probably me! I applied 2 part epoxy to the barrel and wooden blocks, re-clamped, then waited 2 hours. After tightening the vise a lot more, I tried it but, the barrel broke free from the blocks right away. Next I brazed a couple 1/16" steel rods lengthwise to the barrel, they stripped out the wooden blocks. After that I went to work on another project I think this vise will probably work if I replace the wood blocks with steel or aluminum ones with bushings. I don't remember what I paid for this thing, but with shipping to Alaska I've probably got more than $50 into it, so I hate to give up on it to quickly. Thanks for all the input. I'll let you know how things work out. Kenny I would imagine that several folks use wood blocks, but personally think they suck. I use 1 1/2" aluminum shims and a homemade barrel vise. I use a air powered 20 ton jack and two 1" bolts to hold my barrels in place. I have yet come across a barrel that I couldn't take off (knock on wood). I think once you go to steel instead of wood, I bet you will have better luck. Oh ya, don't forget the rosin, it does a real good job as well. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_911rat_* Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I've only used the Wheeler vise and home made wood blocks. I've had beter luck with PB Blaster than Kroil. I soak the threads for a couple days, rough up the barrel with emry cloth or sand paper and use a one hour epoxy on the wood blocks. I seem to remember not waiting much more than an hour and using a 4 ft cheater bar. It seems that you need to shock a barrel free as others have found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Limpid Lizard Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 At this point, I would be relieving the tension in a lathe. Lacking a lathe, a hacksaw carefully applied should do the trick. Cut a groove just forward of the receiver and hope there is enough tension on the secondary torque shoulder that relief is provided to allow the barrel to unscrew without damaging the receiver. Being a Mauser, it may have tension only on the primary torque shoulder, but it would not hurt to try. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manureman Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 So thats what I was hearing,stay with it Kenny you'll get her.I use the B-square vise and really like it,didn't care for the Midway vise at all but get along real good with their action wrench. Good luck ,Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_MR1_* Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I copied Steve Wagners 2" sq steel with 3/4" bolts and aluminum shims. mr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odies dad Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 For lack of a rosin bag or anything else of that nature, I use some of the fine sand on the floor of the garage that hes a vice stong enough to not tear out of the bench when I'm leaning on the cheater bar. It will scratch the bluing but I have only needed to remove junk barrels that way so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montea6b Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I too have a Wheeler vise with oak blocks. I succeeded in getting one barrel off with it, using homemade rosin after soaking the action good in PB Blaster, heating the front ring with a propane torch till just hot to the touch, then putting bressure on the wrench and whacking with a big hammer. The home made rosin was obtained by picking dried chunks of pitch from Douglas Fir trees on my property and grinding them in a makeshift mortar and pistle. This was for a barrel that I wanted to re-use. The first one had a junker barrel and the only way I could get that one off was using a pipe wrench. The way to do that is to get a big wrench of about the same length as the handle of your action wrench, and with the action wrench attached, put the pipe wrench on at about a 30-40 degree angle, (like a capital letter "A") and put the whole assembly on the ground by your workd bench or another area where you can hold on to something to stabilize yourself. Maybe even put the muzzle end in a corner to keep it from sliding on the floor. Then, stand on the handle of the pipe wrench and "jump" carefully up and down. I don't know how much you weigh, but you can apply a tremendous amount of force in this manner. Probably a lot more than by pulling and whacking with a sledge. It broke a tooth off the pipe wrench, but the feeling of elation after finally achieving success was well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken98k Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I too have a Wheeler vise with oak blocks. I succeeded in getting one barrel off with it, using homemade rosin after soaking the action good in PB Blaster, heating the front ring with a propane torch till just hot to the touch, then putting bressure on the wrench and whacking with a big hammer. The home made rosin was obtained by picking dried chunks of pitch from Douglas Fir trees on my property and grinding them in a makeshift mortar and pistle. This was for a barrel that I wanted to re-use. The first one had a junker barrel and the only way I could get that one off was using a pipe wrench. The way to do that is to get a big wrench of about the same length as the handle of your action wrench, and with the action wrench attached, put the pipe wrench on at about a 30-40 degree angle, (like a capital letter "A") and put the whole assembly on the ground by your workd bench or another area where you can hold on to something to stabilize yourself. Maybe even put the muzzle end in a corner to keep it from sliding on the floor. Then, stand on the handle of the pipe wrench and "jump" carefully up and down. I don't know how much you weigh, but you can apply a tremendous amount of force in this manner. Probably a lot more than by pulling and whacking with a sledge. It broke a tooth off the pipe wrench, but the feeling of elation after finally achieving success was well worth it. I'm sure that would work but, I'm trying to save the barrel. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racepres Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 $0.02 I use a home made barrel vice somewaht like the wheeler , but, made of heavier stuff. also hardwood blocks [unk. except they are not oak which I feel is too course grained and therefor splits under preassure] then two small strips of 150 grit sand paper on ea. block against the bbl. I use a 3 foot cheater on the breaker bar to tighten the bolts on the bbl vise, and pull for all i'm worth and then pull somemore. Have not had one slip if tightened properly [? pull somemore] Used to use a hydraulic press but now feel that with 3/4 in. bolts and a cheater, I can clamp abt as hard. It leaves the barrel reuseable, but, may need to steel whool and perhaps touch up blue. I also believe in a good whack! to get things going ... after you can do chin-ups on the action wrench... Good luck . MV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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