claytonfaulkner Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 in the next few years im going to have to decide on what i want to do with my life, right no wi am a junior in high school and i really dont want want to go to a 4 year collage just because i dont get along with school. i was really looking at underwater constrution, im a good welder and i want to start scuba diving. the other thing i was thinking about was gunsmith school. is there any good 1's in the US? all the really great 1's ive herd of are in europe. can some1 even make money in this field anymore? i would like to eventuly (i mean in the next 30 years) invest in a cnc machine and start making true custom guns of my own creation (double square bride, controlled round feed, sort long and magnum lengths). i know this sounds like a crazy dream, and pretty much it is but i just wanted to hear some feedback b4 i gave up on it. im taking welding classes at high school, the teacher also teaches at the community collage and is very good. hopefully this semister he will teach me how to use a lathe and a mill, im gonna see about converting the safety on the gun im building now to a 2 position m70 style. well any1 that wants to leave a comment feel free to speak your mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwims Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Clayton, I think I asked this very question of myself thirty years ago. I here the Colorado School of Trade has an excellent gunsmith program. As far as making money as a firearms manufacturer, Remington, Winchester, Ruger, and many others have done so. The question you have to ask yourself is are you committed and willing to make the necessary sacrifices to do what you enjoy. You might not get rich; you may not be able to support a family. You are asking a tough question at a time in your life when you have to time to experiment with careers. Good Luck with your decision, rwims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 I'm going to say something you don't want to hear.If you don't go to school and get a degree of somekind,anykind,even photography,bowling,or underwater basketweaving,you'll be competing with every illegale laborer in your area for jobs,and they'll get them first because of no strings attached.With the income you'll have comeing in,your dreams will be put on hold,because every day is survival first,dreams and ideas later,maybe someday.If you think you don't want to go to school because you don't like it,wait until you put 25 years in a dead end job you hate.The company I work for hires kids like you right out of school with PE degrees and put them in jobs making the same money I do,and I've been there 23 years.They start out where it took me all those years to get too,all because they stuck out another 4 years.I hated school too,and had no incouragement to go to college,was just required to finish high school,and have payed to price of struggling to raise my family and provide for them.Without a higher education,you have no time for dreams,just surviving.If I had it to do over,I'd get into the military,get out and go to school,then chase my dreams.You'd have the world by the ass.My goal in life has been to go to Trinidad Colorado and get into their gunsmith school.Not to go into as a career,just for the knowledge.Sorry to sound like a parent,but when you said you didn't want to go to college because you don't like school,I saw a huge mistake about to be made.That 4 years will pay you back many times for 60 years.Pretty go investment.Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlunity Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 The smiths I have talked to say that it is a hard way to make a living. The startup costs..tools, are high and a lot of folks, like us, have taken to doing small jobs on their own. I would have to agree, stay in school and go on to college, it may be hard, life is not easy but in the longrun it pays off. Without a BA, I would be a security guard. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Look at the Army, Navy, or Marines to get that experience you want. Be picky, and don't sign anything that isn't a guaranteed job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odies dad Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 If you don't want 4+ years of college staring you in the face, look into a vo-tech program. If you took some machining classes, you could get a paying job in that field and be able to use that knowlege as a base for your gunsmithing. Even a college degree doesn't guarantee you a great paying job, but it will give you a greater opportunity to get the job over a high school diploma. Another thing you may find helpful and interesting is doing some job shadowing. Contact some people doing the jobs you are interested in and follow them around for a day to see what the really do. Ask them questions as to education requirements and such. Good luck in your decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmall Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 claytonfaulkner, Get a degree. Take a look at your current interests. Do some research (the internet's full of info) about jobs/fields that are similar to your interests. Then go find some folks that are working and ask questions. You'll find many willing to give you the scoop about what they do and you'll find no end to the advice. Your goal should be to find the job you'd like to do (forever) and the degree that'll get you there. Once that's done, do more research. Find a school that's right for you. Work through your guidance office (no matter how bad they are) to arrange some college visits. And while you’re there, talk to the students (even if its after the “official visit” [a.k.a. fluff] is over)… They’ll give you the real story. I think you’ll find that no matter how good or bad you do/did in high school, a good attitude and drive to get a degree will hold a lot of weight with college admissions folks. Also, being a junior, buckle down and finish strong your senior year (a strong finish also holds a lot of weight with admissions folks). High school sucks if you let yourself think so. Make the choice to conquer it. Use what you have left to show what you’re made of. You sound mechanically inclined. Take a look at mechanical engineering (4 yr) or mechanical engineering technology (sometimes 2 yr) degrees. I can tell you from experience, if you go into mechanical engineering and have worked on your car, farm equipment, or guns, you’ll be well ahead of 75% of the kids in there with you (and I’m probably being extremely conservative). Also, often the kids with the best grades are absolutely the worse engineers in the “real world” (not always, but surprisingly often). The object is to learn as much as you can, pass and get the degree. Jerry gave some sage advice - That 4 years will pay you back many times for 60 years. I can tell you for sure that often times a college degree is the price of admission to a job. I can also tell you that I’ve seen job applications get tossed ONLY because there was no degree. Better AND more qualified applicants were not even CONSIDERED due to the lack of a sheepskin. Also, no matter how hard folks try (and get in trouble for doing it) the situation won’t change. Now, I gotta get outta trouble and get back to work… Get a degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgansBoss Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Son, go to school. Is there a two-year community college near home? Try that first but stick it out. Horsefly has given you some hard advise and I'm sure it comes straight from the heart - a heavy heart. Many of us have had similar experiences. You'd do well to learn from our mistakes instead of making your own. Its expensive and I don't know what your (or family's) financial situation is, nor do I care to know or does it matter. There are plenty of government programs that can make it possible for anyone who wants to, to go to college. Take advantage of it. There are many, many successful people who didn't do so well in school - George W. Bush for one - that's not necessarily a measure of potential but how many years you went to school is the yardstick used by bosses to size you up. As for the potential to make a living as a gunsmith - well there is a lot depending on that. First and foremost is the quality of your work. I know two smiths operating within a mile of each other. One does no advertising, does not operate a "gun shop" but is a mechanical genius and does the best work you will find anywhere. Up the road is a guy who advertises a lot, has thousands of dollars worth of guns and accessories in inventory, but is a "gunsmith" in name only. The first guy has more business from all over the country than he wants, the second is barely hanging on to his business from local customers. If you're good, people will seek you out. If you're not the word gets out just as quickly and you will fail. To be a good gunsmith takes many skills rarely found in one individual and a fortune in tools and equipment - remember, it takes good tools to do good work. Its a profession best pursued once you've established a means of assuring your living. You're a young man. There will be girls, a wife (or two) and children some day. There will be mortgages, car payments and braces... yes braces. Find a way to make a good living and there will eventually be time to diversify... perhaps into gunsmithing. Good luck my friend, you've an eternity before you, take your time and make the most of it! TE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoedoh Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Clayton, I can't stress to you enough how important it is that you go to college somewhere. Your education will pay off in more ways than one. You're going to learn a whole lot more in college than you think - some say 70% of your learning happens outside the classroom. And having just graduated, I believe that. And I'm going to second what everyone else has told you. I've been job hunting for the last six months and my degree is what got me in the door at many places. Without it, they wouldn't have even let me in the building. Do take advantage of financial aid! There are loans, grants, and scholarships available. Nowadays, you almost can't afford not to go to college! Regardless of what you do later in life, get that degree! And since you're a lot like me and don't particularly care for school, do what I did: get in and get out. Don't lollygag and take seven years to get a four year degree like many people I know. Just get it done with a move on. You'll find life on the outside far more rewarding and you'll be able to afford bigger and better toys like lathes, actions, and gunsmithing school to do as a hobby. I think gunsmithing is a great hobby. But I wouldn't want to ruin it for myself by doing it for a living. Even when you love what you do, it may not be fun forever... You're almost to that first crossroads in life. I recommend either the military then college, or just college. Either way, go to school! Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamprat Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 I know of a small gunsmithing school about 60 miles from me. It is taught by probably one of the best gunsmiths in the country. Now heres the catch. He takes no one without at least a 2 yr. degree. I've tried many times to convice him my degree from the "School of Hard Knocks" should qualify me, but no go. I dropped out of school, got drafted, joined the Marines to avoid the draft and spent the next 10 yrs. seeing such places as Viet Nam, Okikowa, and other arm pits of the world. Along the way I got a GED and picked up a few college night courses. However I never got that real diploma or the sheep skin. As a result, I've spent my entire life doing work no one else would do just so I could feed and house my family. I could never afford a vacation, health care, life insurance, or a retirement plan. Now I survive on a small disability check and what extra cash I can make from gun deals (the extra cash is not always there). I live in a crappy little house in a crappy neighborhood, not because I choose to but because I can not afford to live elsewhere. And when I die, I'll probably be buried in a paupers grave with no head stone. Four years is a short time to invest to avoid a life of doing without. Swamprat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkerfive Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Claton One of most profound statements I've come to realize is all too true is... "sometimes you just don't know what you don't know". When you said that you don't get along with school I was reminded of something. There is a tutoring school ( The Huntington Learning Center ) that advertizes here to help students that are having trouble in school. What they promote is that they can recognize when the student has some learning difficulty that others haven't recognized. You are very wize to have asked for advice. I'm not sure wether to tell you to seek out your guidance counceler or your parents or both, but you most definatly want to get help so that you get along better with school. As the others have said some sort of degree is ecential if you don't want to just scrape by for the rest of your life. It doesn't have to be a 4 year bachelors degree , it can be a 2 year ascociate degree program. The thing is that you need to do well in high school now so that you can get accepted into a program later. So go out there and find out what it is that you don't know that is holding you back from getting along with school. Tinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken98k Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 GET A DEGREE.... It takes a lot of dough to buy machine tools and doubt if many banks are giving start-up loans to gunsmiths these days. Kenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Like many others here, I had to ask myself that same question---Where should I go to school (after high school)? I knew what I wanted to do, and after getting some advise from the late Jack O'Connor, I had a choice--go to Trinidad gunsmith school (which he recommended), or listen to my high school counselor. Her advise was to forget gunsmith school, there was not enough money in the trade. What I wanted to do, and what was the best at the time, were not the same. I took a nuetral road and went to welding school for two years and got an associate degree. Welding and drafting/blueprint reading. After that, 'nam came about and changed the whole picture. But I had an associate degree when I entered the service, and believe me that made a difference. Instead of being an uneducated kid subject to the draft, I was of some value to a branch of the military that did not send all it's people to 'nam. I never regret the road I took, and if I had it to do again I would listen to my school counselor. She wanted me to go to an upper level university and study journalism. I was good at it, she said. But circumstances, life, have a way of forging your choice. At least mine. If you have a dream, by all means try to do what you want to do. But when that dream turns out to be a nightmare, remember the advise people have offered to you in the past. Anyway, my life turned out just fine, without the gunsmith school which I may have flunked anyway. It's a fine hobby, but making a living at it is not that easy. fritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Get real man!! Don’t think for one minute you can hang a sign saying custom rifles and expect to earn a living. No bank or even the government’s Small Business Administration is going to lend you the money necessary to buy your CNC machine or business start-up costs based on your ability to re-pay with a simple high school education. Unless you live with your parents, drive 10 year old cars and keep your dick in your pants the rest of your life will you even pay your bills building custom rifles. If you’re scraping out any living with just a high school education will you be lucky if you can even pursue building customs rifles for a hobby or even affording to build one for yourself. If you don’t get along with school just imagine how boring and dreary life will be working for somebody else. If you want to be creative you must first learn to get over life’s bumps in the road. If you don’t get along with school, you and you only can fix it. What happens if you don’t get along with gun smithing school. Welders will always be in demand and command a high wage as long as many continue losing their eyesight by age 40. Life isn’t fair but even up the odds, first fix the problem of getting along with school. I hate being hard-assed but I see not getting along with school as an excuse not a reason not to pursue a higher education. If I was your ol’man, I’d kick your ass, take the computer away and stick your nose in the English and spelling books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebel49 Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Clayton: Everyone of the guys has given you good sound advice, and I agree with them. Stay in school, get a degree in something. You will never make a whole lot of dough doing gunsmithing, I certainly don't and probably never will and I've been doing this for about 25+ years. The equipment costs are a killer and machinery is another killer. A good CNC mill will set you back about $12K used, then the tooling is about the same. That's a big nut to crack before you make any profit. Or a whole lot of guns you will have to build and sell, and you will still need other machinery. Drill presses,Lathes,Grinders,etc. and the tooling for each one. I am not out to bust anyones dream, this is just the facts of life. After 38 years as a Tool and Die Maker, I am semi-retired, laid off from a part-time job and have no prospects of finding employment. No one wants a 56 year old guy no matter how much experience you have. After 45-50 your employment prospects are about nill in the machine tool trades, if you aren't in a shop that you can retire from you are skating on thin ice. last year alone I sent out 170 resumes and got 6 replies and 2 interviews, and that's with 38 years experience. They don't and won't say it, but they are looking for younger guys as machine operators. They can pay then less, and work them harder with low benefits. Programmers make more money than Tool Makers anymore, and they barely know how to turn on the machine in some cases. Heck we had to layout, program, machine, fit and assemble everything. No stay in school and get that degree, you will be far better off in the long run. Rebel49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m70fan Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 I have to agree with with the guys who say to get the education. Do you know what Jim Borden and 'Big Daddy' Don Garlitz have in common? Jim Borden is serving his sixth term as the President of the International Benchrest Shooters and is an IBS Hall of Fame member. He has set ten benchrest world records. He owns and runs Borden Rifles. He is living the life you desire. Don Garlitz is known as the 'Swamp Rat' and is the winningest Top Fuel Drag Racer in history. I saw one of his cars, "Swamp Rat 29" is in the Smithsonian Museum of American History. They both have BS degrees in Mechanical Engineering. Garlitz has a Master's in ME. These are both items (cars and guns) that interest young men your age. Most NASCAR teams have multiple engineers who are permanent, essential components of those teams. I am a degreed engineer with a master's in business (MBA). My twin brother is also an engineer with and MBA. He went to school on a full-ride Air Force ROTC scholarship. Neither one of us has regretted our choices. Spending five years with no money, driving crappy cars, and working two jobs during spring break has paid off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsandman001 Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Hello Clayton, Im going to put a bit of a different spin on it but im in a pretty unique situation. You need to go to school and get an education but i dont believe you need to go to a UNI just to be there. I am a diver and have done some rescue work here in lake michigan. Do you really want to be in pitch black 40 degree water looking for flaws in pipe using x-ray or NDT on a drill rig in the middle of the ocean 12 hours a day then in a deco chamber the other 12 just to scrape out $60-$80 thousand a year. I live in a suburb of chicago and everyone around here has a degree at some liberal arts college and some do really well. I also see the Bulgarians comming here and doing the looked down upon blue collar trades and if you bust your hump you can knock down six figures ........im talking trades like tile setters, HVAC and the like ...........im talking people with no education at all.........i also know of a hotdog joint called gene and judes and the owner with no education i might add turns 6 mil a year. I myself had made some good decisions when i got out of school i got into networking for the now defunct Argus camera. I got in where you didnt need an education just the knowhow and got my brother involved.......we then started doing bigger jobs like ace hardwares then some work with ebay. I was pretty well set up then i got lyme disease and couldnt work for 6 years and with current treatment am able to work part time. So you can make all the right moves and still come out bad..........but if you have a skill you can always make money. You say you are good at welding.........my brother knows a welder who gas welds pipes and he is doing $26.90 an hour .........13 years into it. Not great when you just look at it but he also helps make custom choppers on the side and makes another $50,000 a year doing that. So the guys are right if you are looking for a job as an engineer then you better get the degree.............but i see nothing wrong with a skilled trade either and ive been on both sides of the fence. My brother after our business went to school and now is a SYS ADMIN for the Chicago Board of Trade he does $64,000 a year. My wife is an Accountant and she does a little better than that. My dad does HVAC for Jones Lang and turns six figures and does work on the side with not even a high school education...........difference in all of these people is Motivation. You need to find something in life that motivates you then go for it...........I regret not going to the military but i busted an eardrum when i had an earsqueeze i couldnt clear properly and after scoring perfect on the asvab and getting the physical i still couldnt join.......i desperately wanted to be a SEAL. It is also true that in my wifes company there are young girls comming out of college with BS degrees and being put in accounts receivable for $12.50 an hour. What am i trying to say with all of this...........you only get one time on this rock make the most of it..........whatever you do be the best at it and get motivated. Some people just want to make all the dollars they can some people just want to be happy and some lucky people get both .........i hope you can be one of those people. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave h Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 My learned collegues have hit the nail on the head as far as education is concerned ! I've been a Pro shooter for all of my life (with a short exception of when the Army decided it needed me to keep the world a free place ) Yeah ! Everybody tells me what a great career & Life I have! Shooting for a living ! Yeah that's all I do for a living ! Or as I see it ! It's the only thing I can do for a living ,as I left school at 14 as like you I hated it ! Now I'm a victam of a lack of education ! No do the hard yard & then decide what you want Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmog Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Well, folks, I thought I'd let you know that we too are in the throes of an election, but unlike you are nearing the end of it. There is much at stake for gun owners as 2 of the major parties have promised a gun ban of some sort. The Liberals (free market financed socialist) want to ban 'military style assault rifles' and the New Democratic Party (more or less straight up socialist) has promised to ban handguns if elected. About the worst possible outcome for us would be some form of coalition between the two to form power, as no doubt both firearm types would be banned. The good news is that the Conservative Party offers no bans on guns and is hoping to roll back the notoriously unpopular registration of long arms law passed more than 10 years ago. More good news ... although the polls are confusing contradictory and unclear, the Conservatives appear to have the upper hand. It also appears that the Libs may have been just exposed in the midst of cutting a backroom deal with the leader of a minor party ... I suspect that will help us. The vote is Tuesday, Oct 14 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlunity Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 What is the dumbest prank you ever played on your wife or girl? karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlunity Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Good luck. CG. Let us know how it comes out. karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I confess I've never understood the parliamentary system. You might have to enlighten us sometime. For instance, there's an uproar, then an election is called for. Also, the concept of coalition government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmog Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Thanks for the good wishes, we need them ... As to FC's question: Imagine the US Government without a President and with a Senate appointed by the Leader of the House of Representatives. The Leader of the House would be the Prime Minister and would more or less have a free hand passing legislation as long as he controlled a majority of the votes there. A coalition would occur when 2 or more parties join together to ensure sufficient support for legislation to pass. The Senate, as an appointed body more or less rubber stamps everything sent its way. If a government is defeated on a 'confidence motion' it must resign and an election is usually called. Otherwise, an election is called about every 4 years ... I think that about covers it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlunity Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Hum..so if we had that system, the esteemed gentlewoman from the city by the bay would be PM. Gad..what a happy land we would be. Hopefully the Conservatives will carry the day in Canada and that will inspire the folks down here. take care Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmog Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Hum..so if we had that system, the esteemed gentlewoman from the city by the bay would be PM. Gad..what a happy land we would be. Hopefully the Conservatives will carry the day in Canada and that will inspire the folks down here. take care Karl I ceratinly hope so .... Obama is getting a little too much support for my liking. Let's hope something changes and soon. Our political system is (in my opinion) an even more corrupt version of the British parliamentary system which was rejected by America literally centuries ago. There are no systems of checks and balances and 'tyranny of the majority' is the rule. It has led us to a place where a majority is now nearly impossible for any party, as regionalization of votes has become the norm. Canada may become as ungovernable as Italy was back in the day, with multiple defeated governments and frequent elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.