Military Surplus Accuracy Vs Comercial

[milsurpcollector]

I know this is probably a dumb question but......

 

I have an 8mm mauser military rifle that I am thinks about rebarreling. The original barrel is in pretty good shape.

 

Would I see an accuracy improvement if I went with a new commercial barrel?

 

Keep in mind that I would turn the commercial barrel down to the military profile.

 

I have a scope mounted so I would get the maximum out of the barrel.

 

The original barrel is a wartime 98k mauser barrel

[Guest Guest]

Unless you went to a Premiun maker like Lothar Walther or the like, most likely not. It all depends what shape your current barrel is in and how well it shoots now. If you get 1" now then I doubt you'll get much better after rebarreling. Don't expect to buy an A&B barrel, recontour, and have it shoot well.

 

I recently saw a buddy try and slim up an ER shaw barrel and litterally watched it turn into a noodle right in front of my eyes. It was a very light cut and it bowed the barrel. Cheap barrels are not stress relieved properly and you may run into problems. Oddly enough, I've never had this issue when recontouring the military barrel.

 

My yugo's all shoot right at 1" now even with some of the barrels recontoured.

 

tell us how it shoots now and what you are hoping for?

 

 

[spec4 e4]

ok here is my 2cents worth on this matter, if you are looking for an custom rifle do it, but if you are happy with the grouping of your mauser as in military config. keep it that way. But you want to keep it in the military config and you are not grouping well. Then try these first:

1. Clean you barrel and action very well. Get all the copper out of the barrel

2. Look at the crown of the muzzle

3. Check the headspace.

4. try different setting on the triger guard screws(toque)

5. Bed the action and free float the barrel.

6. Try different aftermarket triggers.

7. If the headspace close on the no go, do worry, try different bolt and if you can not found one and the barrel is in great shape, have the barrel turn down and reheadspace.

 

spec.4

[donmarkey]

If you need or want a new barrel in a new caliber, wilson has .308 and .30/06 barrels in military step profile. Available through Brownells.

-D0n

[z1r]

It's funny, I was just talking to one of the editors of Shooting Times at lunch. He was telling me that Danny Pedersen noted that more people were requesting barrels in the stepped profile. Many were having theirs rebored but I think he had a fair amount of requests for new barrels cut to the stepped profile. These were for sporters, not milsurps. Seems to be the new "In" thing.

[AzRednek]

If you need or want a new barrel in a new caliber, wilson has .308 and .30/06 barrels in military step profile. Available through Brownells.

-D0n

 

Sporter Express also has barrels in the military configuration. http://www.sporterexpress.com/v2/

 

If you're having accuracy issues with a milsurp rifle, your problem could possibly be the ammo if you are shooting surplus. Over the years I've had some milsurp ammo that just wouldn't shoot worth a tinker's dam in anything. Consider trying a different batch of ammo or if you’re reloading, different bullet weights and loads before you do anything drastic to the rifle.

 

[manureman]

While some of the late war K-98's might be lacking in quality,don't count your barrel out just because it's a military barrel,Germany has never had a reputation for building junk.Not to say it cant be shot out but I like Spec4e4's way of thinking myself,I'd take a good old German barrel over alot of the new stuff thats out there.Jim

[bilurey]

You didn't mention the accuracy you were getting with military and/or commercial ammo. If you could get an accomplished target shooter to fire test groups at 100yds with both types of ammo this would give you a solid base from which to measure the need to change out the barrel.

 

German pre-war barrels were hand lapped after reaming and again after rifling. In addition, German lands are extremely high relative to most others. This was done because as long as a bore has rifling it will shoot with some degree of accuracy, the deeper the rifling the longer it's shooting life is apt to be if all other conditions are equal. Three examples: M1903/1918 low number from VFW post with potholes ,literally, down the bore shot 1 1/2in groups off bags at the bench, using 220 grn RN bullets/. Numerous pre WW1 S. American M98s with heavily worn bores in 7mm and 8mm rigerously cleaned bores shooting 1-1 1/2in groups at 100yrds with heavy RN bullets. In all cases the ammo was very, very carefully handloaded for consistancy after determining accurate loads for each individual rifle (a wonderful excuse to spend hours at the range). Finally, a K98Z41f sniper and 100 rounds of 1933 FN military ammo turned up at the range on club day. Everybody shot 1in. groups until the ammo was exausted, got about 3in. of vertical stringing between groups as the stock began to get oily when fired too rapidly.

 

Several decades ago the American Rifleman reported a U.S. Army test conducted at the Springfield Armory, using new unissued 1903 Springfields, to determine useful barrel life. Maximum accuracy began at 10,000 rounds and was acceptable to 50,000 rounds! Look it up fellows. In the late 50's they ran a test on crown consistancy which I'm not even going to toss out as it was so surprising. Seems to me I see far too much concern about sparkling bores and perfect crowns. The primary consideration in accuracy is consistancy, making the same errors, the same way, with every shot. Shooter practice and disipline are far more important than bore, sight, and cown conditions combined. Bill

[z1r]

Here's a neat article:

George_Farr_1_.pdf

[AzRednek]

Here's a neat article:

 

Excellent Article!!

[Doble Troble]

That was a GREAT article about George Farr! Thanks, Z.

 

Regarding accuracy of military barrels, I have one issue to add. I can't think of one military rifle I have that shoots light bullets better than those considered heavy for caliber.

 

My 6.5 Swedes do best with 140 gr. My 30-06s do much better with 168s than 150s. 8 x 57s do better with 185s than 150s and I bet 200s would be even better, but I haven't tried them yet.

 

Clean up your bore. If you can, recrown and take it back a thread and rechamber to minimum headspace. After this, if it has rifling, it'll probably shoot heavy bullets just as well as a new barrel would.

[AzRednek]

Shooter practice and disipline are far more important than bore, sight, and cown conditions combined. Bill

 

Bill I couldn't agree more. When I was in my early 20's I would shoot at least once a week. Occasionally my shooting friends and I would shoot all day Saturday, camp out, clean guns, horse trade and shoot till around noon Sunday. I didn't realize how good I was. Now 30 years later, wearing glasses and becoming more and more recoil shy, it now takes a scope to do what I used to at a 100 yards with iron sights. Nowadays I'm lucky to shoot once a month. If I follow Bill's point correctly. Spending some bux on ammo, reloading components and practice, practice, practice might do more to improve one's shooting accuracy than modifying a rifle.

 

I've had a few Spanish and one Brit Enfield with shot out barrels but don't believe I've ever had a non Spanish Mauser, even some with pits in the bore that coudn't shoot reasonably well providing the sights wern't damaged. By reasonably well, I mean well enough that I would have been confident enough to get one in the killing zone on deer sized game. My friends and I used to shoot man sized dongs at some long ranges. Some of the surplus rifles were pretty pathetic looking both inside and out, rarely would we have a rifle that couldn't hit the targets. We might have felt different if we were trying to get silver dollar size groups on paper. If you're after moa accuracy out of a milsurp you might be best to consider a varmit weight barrel or a commercialy made sporting rifle.