littlecanoe Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Before I plunge in over my head I thought I'd See how deep this water really is. I am the happy recipient of a bolt welding Jig!! I can't Weld I have a Carl Gustav that has a botched bolt bend and has been d&t'd. I have a sporter Vz24. I have heat past, a Mod 70 Bolt handle and a Butter Knife bolt handle. For me, no matter how I run these facts through a formula ........ My goal is more leverage on the Carl Gustav on the bolt closing phase yet I want to go with a more traditional Euro-Sporter look here. Which bolt for which rifle do you guys think? I obviously won't be doing the welding but can get the bolts into competent hands. ANy tips for the actual welding? Alignment, ANgle, sweep? TIA, I'm really looking forward to this project! STeve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Steve, You'll need a hacksaw and time or a bandsaw too. The bolt handle is one of the "arts" and no one can tell you what you're going to like. Dunlap said in "Gunsmithing" that unless you weld it on angled forward (which only the French do) it will likely work OK. I guess it didn't matter much that the French used a bolt design that didn't work too well . Besides angle, here are a lot of little things to consider that take up chapters in gunsmithing books. It sounds like its time for you to get one. Dunlap's is good, and although Walsh's is full of typos and errors it actually does have some good bolt handle info - and it's cheap from Midway. Bolt handles are my personal White Whale. Maybe the others will have better advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonthehunted Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Ive mig'd a couple, and they ve all done fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecanoe Posted September 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 I definitely understand the art argument and personal preference. I wanted to ask this forum because I've seen a few traditional rifles posted on here and you guys seem to have a good grasp of the components in building one. I'm kinda trying to get a feel for how to convert the Swede into a more traditional sporter with a scope with a small front optic. I plan on making a new stock for t his one again more in a traditional style. The main question for this build is which bolt handle? I know that the butterhandle is an old style but I'm concerned with the thin edge on a cock-on-close bolt. I had thought about grinding and turning at a 45* angle to get a wider surface for closing the bolt. Rod, I had given a lot of thought to having you work your magic on these bolts. Then I was given this jig and changed my mind. It's time for me to go a little deeper into this sporterizing thing.......Seems like Tig is the way to go. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 These were tigged. Here are some handles I've done. Both the traditional and Brownells style. And some pics showing clearance to the scope bell. The handle on this old sporter was gas welded. Tig or gas is the way to go with tig the much prefered method. Either of these will give you the control needed to make a nice weld. Other methods just lay in too much filler and give you no fince control. Tig is to be prefered over gas because of the heat control you have. It is posible for a good weldor to tig a handle on and not change the temper of the hardened parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonthehunted Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 I like what the TIG does, but when all you got is a MIG, ya use the MIG. I dont know about it being a useless weld, and I do know it is on there good. I have no concern whatsoever of it failing me. I had a stuck bolt a couple of months ago, actually used a tire tool to get that bolt open, and I actually broke the bolt handle, but I didnt break the weld. I do not think the weld is goin to break charging grizzly, charging rhino, Panzer tank, whatever. I see the benefits of the TIG so dont get me wrong, but the MIG is doin fine for me. Thats what I use just because that is what I have. And its done fine, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecanoe Posted September 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Thanks for the pics z1r. nice examples. Looks like you have the low profile thing figured out! Does anyone have a pic of a butter knife handle? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmsniper Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 OK guy's, since I am overseas for the next year I am going to save money and buy a tig welder, ??? 1. what voltage do I need for Bolt handles 2. best/cheapest rig to buy? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Jason, Not sure where you got the notion that anyone said Mig produced a useless weld??? I said Tig or gas give you more control. Mig has the advantage like Tig of laying in the fill without getting the surrounding metal very hot. But, it doesn't allow you to play with the puddle like Tig or Gas. that was my point. If you can do it well then good on you. I've seen more than a few handles done with a stick welder and they hold but you can tell they were welded on. FM, I don't do much aluminum so I got a Miller SD185. Easily welds all my smithing needs and then some without popping my 220 30 amp dryer circuit. relatively inexpensive machine. There are cheaper but most are scratch start. Check out the specs on it. Anything comparable should serve you well. Sounds like Rod is a more rounded and likely better weldor than I so his experience is helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonthehunted Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Jason, Not sure where you got the notion that anyone said Mig produced a useless weld??? 3281[/snapback] dont think you said it, Tangle mentioned useless weld,but he has alot more expreience with welding than I do, Im not trying to argue, just was stating Ive had no problems, and its sturdy. And its all I ve got. Im sure later on Ill try out a TIG and never go back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Z,are the bolts in the 2nd and 3rd pictures the Brownell bolt knobs?Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Jerry, Yes, those are Brownells handles. My least favorite. Well, actually I like them better than those Farrell industries handles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montea6b Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Good thread going here. Just a week or two ago I welded up my first bolt handle. I used a little wire feed welder that I have, and Tanglewood's description of "shooting goobers" is an apt description of the experience. I have done a little bit of welding in years past, and knew that this wasn't the ideal setup, but decided to experiment anyhow. You can see below the set-up in the jig before I started. The handle is a military Mauser as you can see by the serial number, and I left a gap for the fill material and to obtain the length I wanted. I slathered on the heat stop paste and went to town. (It's amazing how that stuff works, I think I heated things up more on the grinder than I did welding!) Here are the results: I know, kinda messy. I had to keep shooting goobers to fill in the space and ended up with a lot of material to clean up. I think it will hold, but there are some small voids or pits that I may get tigged or try to fill with a torch later. Here's what it looks like after a little work: (It's the one in the center, and there is LOTS more work to go...) I am fairly happy with my experiment, but would not recommend a wire feed for this job. I got the handle angle and length how I like it. I like the straight handle, angled just a little. I used to like the straight, (perpendicular) look, but have changed my tastes a bit. The Winchester model 70, however, is too much angle for my tastes. I really dislike the curved sweeps like you see on the commercial Mausers like the Zastava. I'm also happy with the pear shaped military handle. With the serial number gone it's not far off from a Talley. The one on the far left is a forged handle which I am using for my main project. I used to like this style, but now I am drifting away from it. Along the right side, on top is a military "gumball" cut-off handle, (identical to the one below it) that I attacked with a file to see what I could do. I think I'll stop now... too much work for little gain. And it's getting smaller. The third one down is a Dave Talley model from Brownells that I'm saving for my "nice project". (like when I learn how to weld or decide to pay somebody else to do it!) The last one was acquired in an ebay trade for another part and looks like it was turned from a casting with some small pits, or cast from a turning. I think it will clean up and work nicely for some other side project eventually. One last comment, there was an idea to weld a butterknife handle at a different angle for a better grip. Just personal opinion of course, but I wouldn't do this. A butterknife handle looks OK on a traditional Oberndorf style sporter, but I'm not a big fan of the style to begin with. To alter it drastically such as suggested would look out of place. If you're going to make such a change I think you'd be better off with a more standard knob. Just my 2 cents worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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