Fn Mauser Stock Modifications

[Bob58]

I picked up a new-to-me, FN-based, 50's era (?), medium quality, custom rifle in 308Win today. See the attached pictures. It will be my budget project this spring and I would like everyone's opinions on some general plans I have to improve this stock. I'm no expert and want to attract their comments.

 

The metal is in near perfect condition except for ejector box, but the stock needs some serious help - it lacks simple flowing lines that complement the Schnabel forearm (which I'm stuck with - can't add forearm). I'll largely be preserving the master lines - just tweeking weight and softening some harsh angles.

 

My initial observations are: the buttstock is too heavy, the grip is too closed and the recoil pad is dry and brittle. My proposed remedies include:

 

Observation 1: Butt stock appears too heavy and not balanced with lighter Schnabel forearm.

These should remove weight and lessen bulky appearance.

1. Slightly drop top of cheek piece, but preserve slight angle rising from comb toward heel (bolt rubs comb when removed),
2. Thin cheek piece and contour to butt stock, and
3. Taper cheek surface forward until front of cheek piece disappears into grip.

 

Observation 2: The grip is too closed for my taste.

These mods should promote a more open appearance.

1. Grip is too long at 4.5 inches from trigger ! Shorten by about 1 inch to point where it meets buttstock and install thin walnut grip cap. (Carefully choose cap angle to promote more open appearance),
2. Grip at cap is 1.875"long by 1.5" wide. Entire grip can be thinned,
3. Rechecker with pattern that promotes a more open grip appearance,
4. Modify flutes in comb to point toward toe not the back of grip cap. (not sure on this one).

 

Observation 3: The recoil pad is dried, cracked and ventilated.

1. Replace recoil pad with ½ inch , solid black pad (red maybe?),
2. Soften pitch which is currently 4.75 inches at 22” !!! (By changing the angle of the recoil pad the grip might appear more open when you step back and look? Maybe not.),
3. LOP is 13.5 inches so no weight removal or bulkiness opportunity there.

 

A couple of additional questions.:

• Does a combination of Schnabel tip and no front sight seem mismatched to you - didn't Schnabels go out of style before scopes became common? Anachronistic? Should I add a front sight just for appearance?
• How much will that barrel-mounted swivel impact accuracy - or should I really care. All I want is hunting accuracy.

 

Please comment and we'll have some collective fun and see how this all works out. I'll re-post when modified and refinished.

[Ron J]

Everything you want to do seems like just what this stock needs. It's a blessing when there's too much wood. Looks like it'll be a cool project. How about a Paduk grip cap if you go with a red pad? Maybe not traditional enough? Maybe a ball grip and no cap. I'm wanting to do that with my next one. That may help with opening up the grip also.

[Bob58]

Maybe a ball grip and no cap. I'm wanting to do that with my next one. That may help with opening up the grip also.

 

 

I would need to fill the grip cap screw hole. Something akin to this?

[Ron J]

Exactly like that. Yes the screw hole. A true walnut plug as opposed to a section of dowel that will show end grain, may be the easiest to hide. I'm going to do something like this with the stock that is on the Peruvian FN I recently bought. Another option is something I saw in Steven Dodd Hughes book, Custom Rifles in black and white. There is a beautiful German style custom in there by Maurice Ottmar. He put what is described as a 'bag" grip. It's more rounded (spherical) than the shotguns you posted. It has a contrasting wood section at the very bottom of the sphere, very small just the tip. I think it's sharp. I will try to scan the picture in and post it. It's not real noticeable in black and white, but you should be able to get the idea. I'm going to use a pc of Ebony if I go black buttpad and Paduk if I go red.

Oh I almost forgot. Those are some beautiful shotguns - especially #5. Wow.

[donmarkey]

I like the ball grip but I would rather have a cap than a plug. Looks like enough wood there to completely remove that monte carlo top on the buttstock and still retain enough height to use a scope. As for the irons, all rifle need them IMO if nothing else than for back up.

Don

[BradD]

Bob, I agree that the grip needs to go. I don't know how you can trim it without wrecking the fairly nice checkering. If you can lop off all that ugly extension on the bottom, I think a nice slim piece of ebony would save it. I can send you some if you need it, just pm me.

 

I really dislike schnables, they are just too, well, phallic, for me. But I'm just one person in the universe and I'm not Euro, where they adore them, even today. A custom stock shop here where I live still turns them out and sells them like crazy. If you want yours gone, it will be easy to rasp off, reshape and look good. Or lop it off and add a fore end tip to replace. You could match it to the pg. I can help you with that too, I have lots around here.

 

Bye bye butt pad. Needs to go bad.

 

I don't see anything wrong with the swivel. Different, but just fine. It's not going to bother your accuracy.

 

I think your feeling about the whole butt are being too heavy is right. Were it mine, I would be thinning much of the "clunkiness" out around the buttstock.

 

Actually, I think you have a stock with a lot of potential. Be sure and repost when you've got it the way you like.

 

Brad

[Bob58]

... If you want yours [schnabel] gone, it will be easy to rasp off, reshape and look good. Or lop it off and add a fore end tip to replace. You could match it to the pg. I can help you with that too, I have lots around here...

 

Brad

 

Brad,

 

Great minds think alike. I was looking at the stock again late last night and I considered for the first time modifying the forend as you suggested. The existing schnabel is pretty well excuted so I did'nt rush to get rid of it like elements of the buttstock. I have no problem with schnabels -they just seem more appropriiate with a drop-comb, iron-sighted rifle.

 

The barrel is 22" and the forearm is currently 11 3/4"- a little bit longer than the customary "half of barrel" so there is room to work with.

 

Two ideas come to mind:

 

1. Cut off the schnabel and tastefully round off - easy to execute and forearm length would be perfect. But that may be too easy.

 

2. I could lop off the forearm just behind the swivel and add a tip while reducing length 3/4" When all the dust settles the forearm would be half-of-barrel, tip length should be proportional and barrel band gone. I'll have to put a sharp pencil to the dimensions.

 

Regardless of which option is chosen, the forearm would be a little thinner than most modern forearms, but still attractive. A secondary benefit would be an overall "modernization" to a more scope-appropriate style.

 

Before I do any forearm mods though, I'll work on the buttstock's balance and lines. That will give me more time to think about the forearm and let ideas settle in. Visualize twice... cut once. Also, losing the checkering is not an issue. Although I am only a moderately-skilled amateur, I feel my checkering could be a slight improvement - and be mine, which is all part of the fun.

 

Thanks for the ebony offer, but I have some stock myself. I'm partial to a darker walnut and medium contrast similar to some of the Kimber rifles. Do you have any very dark walnut?

 

 

[Ron J]

Bob, here is the Ottmar stock I was refering to. Our scanner is lousy with photos, but I think you can see it. I'm not a schnabel freak, but like them on a rifle where they belong. My .257 will be all American sporter style, the FN European and the Rigby British. I like them all! Contrasting walnut is cool especially if you can find some with some figure. Tough. Maybe Woodcraft. The have spindle turning blanks and chunks for bowls that are sometimes sharp. Ottmar_stock.pdf

[Bob58]

Bob, here is the Ottmar stock I was refering to. Our scanner is lousy with photos, but I think you can see it. I'm not a schnabel freak, but like them on a rifle where they belong. My .257 will be all American sporter style, the FN European and the Rigby British. I like them all! Contrasting walnut is cool especially if you can find some with some figure. Tough. Maybe Woodcraft. The have spindle turning blanks and chunks for bowls that are sometimes sharp. Ottmar_stock.pdf

 

 

I really like that! I need to find that book. I have a non-d/t Husqvarna 640 that would look great re-stocked like that. I can't see the detail referred to in the text but it sounds pretty special.

 

Thanks for sharing that. Dang, too many good ideas going through my mind. Did you notice that forearm is pretty short?

 

Coincidentally, I have one of those stock carving vises mentioned in an earlier thread to pick up at Woodcraft today.

[ken98k]

This is pretty interesting because I've been wrestling with a similar problem. So far I've decided to add a flash hider to give a little more balance to the rifle but the buttstock will need work also.

Looking forward to seeing your mods.

 

[Bob58]

Yep, lookin' rather heavy at one end. Also some pretty strong pitch. Does it wobble when it rolls?

[ken98k]

Yep, lookin' rather heavy at one end. Also some pretty strong pitch. Does it wobble when it rolls?

 

I don't know about wobbling and rolling but it's actually very comfortable to shoot as is. It just looks like hell.

[Bob58]

I don't know about wobbling and rolling but it's actually very comfortable to shoot as is. It just looks like hell.

 

 

I've never seen a rifle I didn't like - each has its own attributes. Yours Ken could double as a paddle. It's not nearly as ugly as that rusted rifle you found on the sandbar.

[BradD]

Hi Bob,

 

Been gone a few days and just got back to the forum.

 

I do have some walnut pieces in my stuff and I wouldn't use them. I'll go look tomorrow and see if I have any really dark stuff that would look good with your wood.

 

Looked again at that buttstock. It really needs some wood gone, especially around the cheekpiece and pistol grip. Were it mine, I would definitely use that stock, but it would look very different when done.

 

Sometime back I did a posting on building two .325 WSMs. I did post pics of the finished stocks as I recall, but unfortunately not before pics. One of the stocks looked almost like yours except that it had no schnable, just some buttugly beech or white cocobolo tips that I replaced with dark rosewood. I'll try to find that post and show you how it could look after. I thought I would be throwing the stock away, it looked like junk wood finished with creosote. When I cleaned away some of the "finish" I found great looking walnut.

 

Brad

[Bob58]

Hi Bob,

 

... When I cleaned away some of the "finish" I found great looking walnut.

 

Brad

 

That's what so great about finding/restoring old sporters. I have several stocks that have blemishes that I would discard if the wood was ordinary, but can't seem to do it because of otherwise nice wood. Although this stock's wood is rather unremarkable, it's nicer than most "over the counter" stocks, I believe it has interesting potential through re-contouring - I want to "save" it.

 

I don't know if you noticed but someone did a nice job of patching and blending what must have been some heavy scratches. In the first picture, which is the right side of the buttstock, closely note the inlay in the middle of the buttstock that starts in the flute and is bordered at the bottom by the "tail" of checkering. The patch extends halfway to the buttplate ending in a 90 deg. point right near the middle of the buttstock. There is another 1" patch in the heel with a "point" toward the comb - the dark angular "scratch" gives it away in the picture. Maybe I can improve on that somehow -fill it with its own dust composition. Fortunately, my plans don't involve modifying those areas.

 

This is a keeper for sure. I'll like the completed project because it will be some good wood, mostly my re-work - and on the cheap. I'd like to see your pictures and would appreciate some dark walnut for a cap and tip. Let me know what seems reasonable to you.

[BradD]

Bob, looked through my stuff and couldn't find any dark walnut. Just French, way to light colored.

 

I do have quite a bit of African wenge which looks a little like a cross between walnut and ebony. If you want to try it send me a PM with a mailing address.

 

I got all my stuff from an outfit called Curly Woods, owner Michael Mastin in McKinney, TX. Real nice guy with great stuff. Went to his website today (www.curlywoods.com) and he has the site to some other outfit and he can't be reached there. If you do need other types of wood, it might be worth calling him at 1(469)742-0097 and see if he's still in business.

 

I tried yesterday to pull up my old posts and I couldn't get anything. I'll try later today, maybe it was just a temporary thing.

[Bob58]

Bob, looked through my stuff and couldn't find any dark walnut. Just French, way to light colored.

 

I do have quite a bit of African wenge which looks a little like a cross between walnut and ebony. If you want to try it send me a PM with a mailing address.

 

I got all my stuff from an outfit called Curly Woods, owner Michael Mastin in McKinney, TX. Real nice guy with great stuff. Went to his website today (www.curlywoods.com) and he has the site to some other outfit and he can't be reached there. If you do need other types of wood, it might be worth calling him at 1(469)742-0097 and see if he's still in business.

 

I tried yesterday to pull up my old posts and I couldn't get anything. I'll try later today, maybe it was just a temporary thing.

 

 

I received the Madagascar Ebony today. It looks nice and quite useable. I like the contrast. I will use it on this rifle, if not the next. I also will post your pictures in the next day, or so. They're on my pc at work. Nice lines on your reconfigured stock.

[Bob58]

... I'll try to find that post and show you how it could look after. I thought I would be throwing the stock away, it looked like junk wood finished with creosote. When I cleaned away some of the "finish" I found great looking walnut.

 

Brad

 

 

Brad's rifle referred to above is attached. Nice looking simple lines and the tip and cap look like a nice touch. Overall elegant appearance.

 

[BradD]

Take a look at this stock of the same ilk. It will make you want to go hug yours.

 

Ebay #200328553535

 

Brad

[Ron J]

Brad's stock is fine example of things when they're right. I'm trying to learn that. I look at stocks closely and try to get a feel for why some look so much better to me than others. It's the whole rifle really - it all has to flow together. Reminds me of what a Supreme Court Justice said about porn once. "I can't define it, but I'd know it if I saw it."

[Bob58]

Take a look at this stock of the same ilk. It will make you want to go hug yours.

 

Ebay #200328553535

 

Brad

 

 

I feel like sticking needles in my eyes...

[Ron J]

Aw c'mon. Both you guys are dying to pick that thing up and put it out of everyones misery. It's a diamond in the rough.

[Bob58]

Aw c'mon. Both you guys are dying to pick that thing up and put it out of everyones misery. It's a diamond in the rough.

 

 

Walnut and the current owner are right - trapped inside is a better looking stock. However that deep cut in the comb area could be a challenge.

 

We should have an ugly stock contest. Everyone start with a butt-ugly stock and see who can make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

 

After all, resurrection is the theme this weekend.

[Bob58]

Brad's stock is fine example of things when they're right. I'm trying to learn that. I look at stocks closely and try to get a feel for why some look so much better to me than others. It's the whole rifle really - it all has to flow together. Reminds me of what a Supreme Court Justice said about porn once. "I can't define it, but I'd know it if I saw it."

 

 

Walnut,

 

The last several chapters of the book below has been my beginners guide as to what makes for simple, tasteful lines. It has helped me understand what visually to look for and provides some dimensional benchmarks.

 

There is a custom Argentine 1909 on page 179 that is my standard against which all bolt action stocks are judged. I consider it to be near perfect and I use it as my benchmark - my only mods would be a slight decrease in the drop at comb and a simpler checkering pattern.

 

Its most obvious attributes include:

- radii, not corners or angles (an overall smoothness in forearm and buttstock features),

- a very dark walnut,

- softly contrasting wood (not solid black) tip and cap,

- a solid, dark recoil pad,

- a slightly open/medium grip, and

- full checkering (both grip and forend)

 

And one other feature not related to the stock that I find particularly appealing is the "in the white" militray bolt shroud. I'm not sure why I do. I suspect it has to do with how the shroud's "angular and mechanical" appearance contrasts with the wood's smoothness and dark color and the uneasy blending of metal and wood. I need to stop now... I'm beginning to embarass myself.

 

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?binding=...f+riflesmithing

[BradD]

Bob, you know beauty is in the eye of the beholder. However, before the beholder gazes upon it the artist (and this IS art, no sense denying it) must gaze upon it and decide what it should be, much of the time deciding upon that as he or she goes.

 

I had no idea where that piece of crap was going to go when I decided to rescue it. I just knew I had a pretty good piece of walnut and enough of it to do something with. I didn't know if I would screw it up or have a nice stock in the end.

 

I agree about an aggregate of parts ending up as the whole. And the whole must not look like a camel when finished. The parts need to flow together.

 

The forearm must have enough wood to be be strong, but not clunky. It has to fit both your eye and your hand. It must have grace and be the right length. If there is to be an exotic tip then it must not be too long or too short. If you are objective and honest with yourself you will find the right length. Big nasty square corners on the forearm rarely (well, actually, never) work out well on the forearm.

 

As well said by you, the pistol grip needs to be graceful, not sharp or circular, but especially not straight (ugh!). Fortunately on this item you can let your hand be your guide. Feel it, look at it and continue rasping until both are right. Toadstools are out so get rid of the mushroom look on the cap. The cap must not be too thick. Some emphasis at this point is nice occasionally but, please, no more toadstools. Find the right segma curve for both your eye and your hand and all will be right in the world.

 

The most important part of the stock is the buttstock. We all know about the pitch, drop, heel, toe, cast off, length of pull, etc, etc stuff. How the comb looks makes or breaks both the looks and function of the stock, but this is art we're talking about now, not science. A big ass cheek piece looks like a big ass person. Depending upon your preferences, it may be fun to grab, but it is no fun to look at. Keep it modest, but apparent. A railroad tie stock neither looks good nor works good, trim it down to where it provides enough butt area to disperse recoil appropriate to the size of the cartridge and still make your eyeballs happy. The cheekpiece must absolutlely melt into the rest of the buttstock, with the exception of a shadowline around the perimiter. However the shadow line must be even, consistent and disappear when it is it's time at each end. It is imperative that shadow lines be be sharp, otherwise get rid of them.

 

That's just some stuff I work towards when shaping a stock. I'll bet there are a lot of other ideas among us too.

 

Brad