Ideas?

[tinkerfive]

I'll try to explain Small ring / large ring with a history lesson, that may make it make more sense.

 

First off a definition. The "ring" is the front part of the receiver where the barrel screws in.

 

The early Mauser models 93, 95, 96 were all "Small Ring" as we refer to them today. Under 1&1/4".

And the barrel threading is .98 X 12TPI.

 

When Mr. Mauser designed the 98 the ring size (with a few exceptions) went to a diameter over 1&1/4"

and the barrel threading went to 1.1 X 12TPI.

 

Now the Turks, when they ordered the '03'model from Germany and went to make there version of a Mauser 98

In 1938 ( AKA the KKhale) they chose NOT to go with the 1.1 threading and kept the .98 threading.

So the KKhale is a large ring 98 with small ring barrel threads.

 

Hope this helps

Tinker

[jeffturk]

AHHHHH! i see. i think that is exactily what i needed to hear. history to the madness. thanks! like i said before....YOU GUYS ARE SERIOUSLY BRILLIANT! the info i had gotten from you guys is much appreciated and is sinking in.

[sonic1]

you need to do some reading on how to get the barrel off..your going to need some tools...

[jeffturk]

i know how to get the barrel off. gonna try this barrel and some good ammo first. cleaning the hell out of it. put it back together. shoot it at 50, then at 100. if still not good.... off with the barrel. and off to the local smith for him to take it off. lol. unless i make the reciever wrench and barrel vice myself. have you guys seen the 45acp conversion for these? i think i like it. what do you think?

http://www.troupsystems.com/MAUSER/mauser_conversions.htm

[sonic1]

thomas seidel who is running this link you added is a real snake.was in buisnes about 2 years ago..scammed a lot of people out of money and them dropped out of sight..now he has a new site backup..his phone is a cell and his address is a mail drop..most people who sent money never got there parts me being one of them.

[Horsefly]

You better listen to sonic.That dude is a couple miles from my work,and I ask him in an email if I could stop by and pick up a barrel vise he was selling and save the shipping,and the message I got back caused me to smell a rat,so I blew him off as a weird jackass.Must not be a native Texan!My wife reading over my shoulder said she knows one native Texan jackass.Reckon who that'd be? Jerry

[jeffturk]

DAMN! thought those looked cool. guess thats where the saying comes from. if it seems too good...i probably is. thanks for the heads up.

[jeffturk]

hey! so..... ok, i cleaned the barrel. i can see rifiling in it. dark and shiny. should it be all shiny? rifiling goes from the breech to the muzzle. one spiral is dark and the other shiny. is this ok?

[jeffturk]

i got my head space gauges today. the "GO" gauge goes in and closes. BUT.... so does the "NO GO". i do have the bolt completly stripped tho. does that make any difference? i do not think it does. i do not have a "FIELD GAUGE". even tho my "NO GO" gauge locks in, do i really need a "FIELD GAUGE". "NO GO" means exactily that, right? NO GO!

[donmarkey]

No most military mausers will close on the no go. They are meant for battle use in all condtions. A field guage will tell you if it has excess headspace form a safety standpoint. Reloading and neck sizing only will probably help your groups.

Don

[Clemson]

All of my military Mausers (about 20 of them) close on the go and do not close on the no-go. Don is correct about the field gauge showing you the danger point, but I would say that closing on the no-go is not all that common.

 

Clemson

[Vladymere]

Jeffturk,

 

When the stripped bolt closes on the no-go gauge is that under it's own weight or with you helping to close the bolt? If the bolt does not close under it's on weight then headspace is good. If you are helping the bolt to close, even in just the lsightest way then the test is not being conducted properly and you may be causing damage, though unseen, to your gaguge.

 

Vlad

[jeffturk]

it actually closes fairly easy on the "NO-GO" gauge. i am not forcing it at all. even with a field gauge how do you know there is not even more head space than that? have you guys seen an exact headspace gauge? i saw one that a guy made with an old shell cut down and a brass brush epoxied in the end where the primer goes and the other end slipped over the brush. this way you can measure exact space. i think that if a no-go gauge goes in that is good enough for me that i need to do something with it. am i too picky? being over-safe? why does my "GO" gauge say 8x47 1.8743 and my "NO-GO" says 8X57 1.880? 8X47??? sound right? i think i am paronoid about this head space thing. thanks for all the answers you guys!

 

http://www.gswagner.com/headspacegage/headspacegage.html

[tinkerfive]

i think that if a no-go gauge goes in that is good enough for me that i need to do something with it.

 

Yes the breach face needs trimmed off so that the barrel will screw on further getting the chamber shoulder ( datum )

closer to the bolt face

 

am i too picky? being over-safe?

 

Not in my opinion, some would continue to fire a rifle that exceeds the 'no-go' so long as it doesn't exceed the 'field'

gauge; but I wouldn't. If you are firing military brass which is generally thicker and won't be reloaded, safety

isn't so much an issue but, accuracy is diminished. I would highly recommend against firing commercial re-loadable

brass in a chamber that is at 'field' length if you have intention to reload.

 

 

 

 

 

why does my "GO" gauge say 8x47 1.8743 and my "NO-GO" says 8X57 1.880? 8X47??? sound right? i think i am paronoid about this head space thing. thanks for all the answers you guys!

 

 

47 would be a typo, it is 57.

Your chamber must be a minimum of 1.8743 from the datum on the shoulder to the bolt face but "should" not exceed 1.880.

 

http://www.gswagner.com/headspacegage/headspacegage.html

 

Hope this helps

Tinker

[jeffturk]

if/when i take this barrel off and have it trimmed down. how much do you think i should take off? the difference of the "go" and "no-go" gauges to start? that makes sense to me. like .006 (the difference of the 2 gauges)? or should i go .010? and run a reamer thru it.

[tinkerfive]

if/when i take this barrel off and have it trimmed down. how much do you think i should take off? the difference of the "go" and "no-go" gauges to start? that makes sense to me. like .006 (the difference of the 2 gauges)? or should i go .010? and run a reamer thru it.

 

If you have the reamer you might go ahead with the .10. That way if it is too much you can give the reamer a light spin

and freshen the chamber.

If you don't have the reamer, defiantly do not take off more than the difference.

That "GO" gauge is a minimum size that the chamber must be.

 

Tinker

[jeffturk]

If you have the reamer you might go ahead with the .10. That way if it is too much you can give the reamer a light spin

and freshen the chamber.

If you don't have the reamer, defiantly do not take off more than the difference.

That "GO" gauge is a minimum size that the chamber must be.

 

Tinker

 

that sounds like a plan to me. thanks to you and all the others that have been helping with the info.

[Rojelio]

Jeff, if you're still using the barrel sights, I suggest that you set it back one full turn (.083) so that your sights will index properly. Then recut your chamber. If your barrel has no sights or markings that you want to line back up then just set it back enough to headspace properly.

 

Roger

[Spiris]

I've not seen any reference in this thread addressing the excess headspace and the possibility of lug setback in the action. I have heard of, but not seen lug setback myself in Turk K.Kale actions, but it is a possibility.

 

jeffturk, I'm not posting to rain on your parade, but excess headspace can be a sign of setback and could be hazardous with old brass. Without a field gauge or some measuring tool, you're only guessing on the headspace situation.

If you pull the barrel, check the inner bolt lug surfaces in the action for visible lines caused by the bolt lugs creating a tiny step in the action lug area, which can give you excess headspace. This can be from incorrect heat treatment of the action and subsequent soft metal. There are other reasons for excess headspace, such as bolt swaps and just wear and tear over the years.

If you do not see any obvious marks, then proceed with your plans to correct the headspace issue with refurbishing the barrel and reaming to spec. Just be careful because that reamer can take a bunch of metal out in a hurry.

I have several Turk Mauser conversions myself, and I hope it works out well.

 

 

 

Spiris

[jeffturk]

thanks guys. i am not using the original sights, the barrel has been cut down 10" from its original length. i will check for that lug issue for sure now that i know about it. thanks again.

[tinkerfive]

thanks guys. i am not using the original sights, the barrel has been cut down 10" from its original length. i will check for that lug issue for sure now that i know about it. thanks again.

 

Spiris is right to mention it.

 

You are obviously learning everything for the first time. I think that we have been focused on the question at hand.

lug set back is a rare thing but, it does occasionally happen. My buddy Rod will tell you that Turk bolts are junk. The receivers are generally better than the bolts. Don't assume that the bolt is junk because it happens to be in a Turk receiver at this point in

time. Sometimes you will find very good Brno or German bolts in a Turk.

You can easily examine the mating surface of the locking lugs of the bolt to see if they look 'hammered'.

 

The quick and dirty field test for lug setback is as follows.

With the bolt closed, pull back on the handle and slowly rotate the handle up ( open ).

It should rotate smoothly in one plane before disengaging the lugs and starting to move rearward.

Any tendency for the bolt to want to move forward as you rotate the handle up before it moves rearward; would tend to indicate

lug set back.

 

 

 

Tinker

[lemski4]

Usually the throat is eroded in the old GI barrels, and the crown might need some looking at. Why not rechamber the barrel to 8mm-06 and clean up the throat and recrown barrel? That is if there is not any lug set back problems.

[jeffturk]

i am liking the rechambering idea. looks to be money saving. i will not need to have the barrel set back or even take it off. correct? all i need is a reamer and a go gauge to do that, right? i will check the lug issue mentioned, but i do not recall noticing that at all.

[jeffturk]

i put the bolt and everything back together. i ran the bolt into place and backed it out slowly. i did not notice any forward then rearward motion with the bolt at all. it seems to be moving as smooth as silk. tell me more about this "rechambering" idea. do i need to do anything with the magazine or follower? not thinking i do.

[tinkerfive]

tell me more about this "rechambering" idea. do i need to do anything with the magazine or follower? not thinking i do.

 

I assume that you mean re-chambering to 8mm-06.

You shouldn't need to do anything with the follower.

As to the magazine the answer is 'it depends'.

It depends on what type of bullet you reload with.

Most round nose varieties won't give you an over all length that would necessitate lengthening the magazine.

Now if you want to use spire points that is another story.

 

I have the reamer and gauges and intend to make one of mine into an 8mm-06.

I figure to leave the mag alone and use round nose bullets until something motivates me to try spire points.

Then I'll deal with the magazine length issue.

 

Tinker