Eldora Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 I customized a Radom mauser two years ago into a pretty nice-looking classic deer rifle chambered 7x57. Did the stock work and bolt-jeweling myself. Haven't shot it very much until now getting ready for the season. I've tried various handloads in an attempt to find something it likes. Sometimes it shoots very tight groups, other times it's awful (same load). I 'glass bedded it completely so I'm pretty sure that's not the problem, especially since the last few days. I began to notice signs resembling excessive headspace. This isn't close to a maximum load, either. I checked all my brass and the resizing die. The die was off a bit so it was re-adjusted correctly and I bought new brass. Today I fired it three times and the last case seperated. Needless to say, I stopped immediately! The action was trued, barreled and blued by E.R.Shaw because I knew I didn't have the capability to do it right. The finish is beautiful but I'm thinking the workmanship is not. Question is...now what? Re-barrel? Take it off, turn the shoulder and re-install? I've also discovered the chamber isn't perfectly round either! In fact, could that be the whole problem? Could there be a problem with the bolt lugs? How would I tell? You guys could/would tackle this yourself but I'm not comfortable trying it since I don't have the tools or experience. Who comes recommended? A lot of questions....hopefully a few suggestions? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec4 e4 Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Try Fred at Low Tech at www.gun-shop.biz/ spec.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgansBoss Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 "...The action was trued, barreled and blued by E.R.Shaw..." Call Shaw and make arraingements to send it back. This of course means you're gonna miss hunting with it this season, but then it looks like you are anyway. If your ammo is correct and you get case seperations your headspace is off - dangerously perhaps. If they barreled it, its their problem to correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Is it possible that by adjusting your die you are now moving the shoulder back too far (and creating a headspace problem)? This could easily happen with a chamber cut on the long side of spec and with a die on the short side. The bottom line is that dies should be adjusted to the rifle, not to the shell plate. If you have a long chamber you *should not* screw it all the way down to the shell plate per manufacterer's instructions. You should always adjust a FL die to just bump the shoulder. If you've got enough brass that hasn't been resized past bumping the shoulder reset your die and go hunting. If you don't have fired brass will unsized new brass create excessive headspace (measure and compare to once fired, or better make a chamber cast, it shouldn't unless the unlikely lug set back has occured). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgansBoss Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 I repeat - "...If your ammo is correct and you get case separations your head-space is off..." Forget the reloads for now and buy a box of factory ammo. It the problem persists, send it back. Factory ammo and factory reamers are BOTH made to SAAMI specs. Since you paid for the work you shouldn't settle for fixing it yourself. Even the pros make mistakes. I'm sure a reputable outfit like Shaw's wouldn't want one of theirs floating around out there. One word of caution - don't fire it from the shoulder until you solve this problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claytonfaulkner Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 im just woundering, what is the worst than can happen from having head space off?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 Death. not that common but it can happen. Generally just a ruined action depending on what the excess headspace leads to. It accelerates setback. If a case head seperates you can wreck the action and depending on what action you can suffer svere injuries. The 98 tends to handle these episodes with aplomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 I'm not trying to recommend further firing until the problem is identified. I'm just saying that the problem may be as simple as a maladjusted reloading die - which should be easy to check. The fact that one of the steps prior to the head seperation was a die adjustment makes me think this is a likely culprit. Do you have any more cartridges that were loaded with the one that split? Measure from base to shoulder. How does this compare to factory ammo? If you're not confident about how to be sure how to check the die adjustment, by all means send it back to get checked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldora Posted October 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Thanks, guys. I've been gone to clean up our hunting camp this weekend so I'm just now getting your replies. To be more clear...I think the reloading die was out of adjustment from the beginning. It was bumping the shellholder pretty hard. We (my Dad & I) backed it off so that a resized cartridge will chamber easily but no more. The one that seperated had been 'sized and fired 2-3 times with the original die setting. If the die was the problem, that case may have been weakened especially if, as I suspect, the shoulder had been set back too far. And it could very well be a little long-chambered. Only way to tell is to do a casting. Good idea! I'm going to fire it with a brand-new unfired case, safely from a distance of course, to see if a problem develops with that. BTW, this isn't close to an overload! I'll probably buy some factory ammo, too. That's a good idea, too. Shaw did a beautiful job on everything else so it's hard to imagine they would mess up something as important as headspacing. I'll have it checked professionally before saying anything to them IF I continue to have problems. Just to be sure. I'll keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Excellent plan! Good hunting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemson Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 And it could very well be a little long-chambered. Only way to tell is to do a casting. 5366[/snapback] Just buy a No-go gauge from Brownells or Midway. If the rifle swallows the gauge, send it back to Shaw. Further experimentation may cost you a wrecked rifle or worse. Clemson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldora Posted October 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Thanks, Clemson. I ordered one from Midway just now. I won't fire it until I check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Clemson's advice is the best given. I'm glad you're taking it. Please report back about what you find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkerfive Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 If the rifle swallows the gauge, send it back to Shaw. Clemson 5400[/snapback] How do you define "swallows" ? Shouldn't he have a 'field' guage and the bolt not close? Might not the bolt even close easily ( due to variations ) on a 'Go' guage? Isn't it sortest to longest.... "No go" "Go" "Field" ?? Tinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 All good questions. Guages are prone to tolerance issues in manufacture and use too. I believe that in most cases they are as unnecessary as they are useful. But if you're not sure about whether or not you need one, you do. I think in this case guaging is a good, safe approach. If it closes on a nogo it should go back. A field guage might be a good investment. If it doesn't close on the field, with careful reloading hunting may be saved. But what if bolt set back is in play? Careful measurment of spent cases should indicate this, but if this were possible guaging is moot. I think we should discuss headspace and sizing die issues at some point soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Go No-Go Field that is shortest to longest. A field gage might be an expedient gage to use for determining if a milsurp is worth firing or not. But, any rifle you've had "professionally" rebarreled should NOT close on a no-go period! Just about every rifle will close easily on a go. I chamber mine to minimum specs so that it "JUST" closes on a go gage. There will be the slightest resistance that last few degrees or bolt arc. This assures me a slight crush fit on brass. Most folks just chamber such that the bolt will close on the go but not the no-go. That means the headspace can be anywhere from 0.000" to 0.006". Then too, the gage test may say all is well and the bolt refuses to close on a no-go gage while the rifle still has excess headspace. Hopefully they checked the lug seats for pocketing. If not, and some was present, you can get a false "good" reading and still have headspace issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldora Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 OK, guys. That "no-go" gauge finally came today. My rifle won't close on it. I believe I could force it by hand but I haven't and won't. The bolt will close about 80% before stopping. There is some slight pressure as the bolt comes down. Instructions say that a rifle that will close on a "no-go" MAY have excessive headspace but still be within SAAMI standards. So, if I'm understanding this correctly, the rifle is probably OK and my re-sizing die was the problem after all. I've thrown out all my used brass and will start over with new & unfired. The first resizing will be done carefully so as not to ruin it and create another unsafe situation. I greatly appreciate your comments and suggestions! It was a great learning opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemson Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 You are correct. It sounds as though your barrel is fine. That is very good news, as reloads are easier to fix than barrel problems! Good luck! Clemson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldora Posted November 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 I would like to show you guys a few pictures of the rifle in question but don't know how. I have them on a disk converted from 35mm film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemson Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Go to photobucket.com and establish a free account. Upload your pictures to the photobucket album. Copy and paste the urls or the image links here. Clemson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldora Posted November 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Sorry, I'll keep trying. It's easy to see that I'm no computer geek! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_jkh004_* Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Beautiful rifle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldora Posted November 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Thanks! Sorry for the messy post. I'm not too good with this computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemson Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Hey man, that looks great! Clemson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringo338 Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Beautiful rifle, so fill in the details, who or how did you do the bolt handle (forged or cut and weld), what trigger are you using, who did the stock and checkering, the bottom metal has a hinged plate (steel or alum) (argie '09 or other)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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