Another Lathe Question

[scott63]

I tried posting this on the machine work section but it said it was read only.What I'm thinking is starting out with a smaller lathe at first, to learn the basics and get some time on a machine. I'm looking at the 10x22 Grizzly for a starter machine. Now what I'm seeing is that all of the machines smaller than a 12x36 have a low speed of 130 or 150 rpms and the bigger machines have a low speed of 35-70rpms.

After watching some AGI videos, it looks like low speed is more important than the top speed. Here are my questions:

1. Are there any smaller lathes with a low speed of under 90 rpms?

2.Any ideas as to why Grizzly doesn't have lower speeds on their small machines?

3.Will I be able to chamber a barrel at 130 or 150rpms?

Thank you for any answers you can give to these questions.....Scott

[Doble Troble]

1. Are there any smaller lathes with a low speed of under 90 rpms?

2.Any ideas as to why Grizzly doesn't have lower speeds on their small machines?

3.Will I be able to chamber a barrel at 130 or 150rpms?

 

1. Yes, the 7 x 10,12, 14 Chinese minilathes have knob adjustable speed - which is really nice. But they have 3/4" spindle holes and weaky motors which really suck.

 

2. It's not easy to wire a motor to adjust speed - especially a powerful one that pulls a lot of current. Its cheap and easy to make sheaves of different diameters for belts to run on. These act as a transmission allowing the motor to run at constant rpm while allowing muliple spindle speeds. You could probably use your lathe to make a custom sheave that would lower the spindle speed to something more comfortable. This sounds like a great second modification, after making a headstock spider.

 

3. Yes! But it would be less hair-raising to run at lower speeds. But once you learn to use a particular machine things become second nature - you'll adapt and get very good at disengaging the spindle feed.

 

This looks like a very flexible machine that should be great to learn on - I wish I had one.

 

But for another few hundred bucks you could step up to a 12 x 36 that you probably won't grow out of (assuming you could figure-out how to move it into your shop).

 

Here's a link to the Grizzly page for others that might be interested. It looks like a really cool little lathe!

[scott63]

1. Yes, the 7 x 10,12, 14 Chinese minilathes have knob adjustable speed - which is really nice. But they have 3/4" spindle holes and weaky motors which really suck.

 

2. It's not easy to wire a motor to adjust speed - especially a powerful one that pulls a lot of current. Its cheap and easy to make sheaves of different diameters for belts to run on. These act as a transmission allowing the motor to run at constant rpm while allowing muliple spindle speeds. You could probably use your lathe to make a custom sheave that would lower the spindle speed to something more comfortable. This sounds like a great second modification, after making a headstock spider.

 

3. Yes! But it would be less hair-raising to run at lower speeds. But once you learn to use a particular machine things become second nature - you'll adapt and get very good at disengaging the spindle feed.

 

This looks like a very flexible machine that should be great to learn on - I wish I had one.

 

But for another few hundred bucks you could step up to a 12 x 36 that you probably won't grow out of (assuming you could figure-out how to move it into your shop).

 

Here's a link to the Grizzly page for others that might be interested. It looks like a really cool little lathe!

The one you linked to is the one I'm looking at, another consideration is size/weight. This one is much more manageable in both areas. The 12x36 is what I would want eventually, but it is about 1300.00 more..........Scott

 

[roscoedoh]

One other avenue you might want to examine would be to watch eBay, Craigslist, and the big newspapers in your area for used machine tools for sale. I know that its not the best idea for someone who knows little about something like machine tools to buy used equipment, but if you were able to bring along a friend who knows about them to go look at the machinery, you might just find some good deals on good quality big lathes (with tooling) for less than you might expect.

 

 

[ken98k]

If you decide to go with a higher rpm machine you'll very quickly come to understand what DT means by "hair raising".

Kenny

[scott63]

One other avenue you might want to examine would be to watch eBay, Craigslist, and the big newspapers in your area for used machine tools for sale. I know that its not the best idea for someone who knows little about something like machine tools to buy used equipment, but if you were able to bring along a friend who knows about them to go look at the machinery, you might just find some good deals on good quality big lathes (with tooling) for less than you might expect.

Thanks for the ideas, but I have been watching all of those as well as running adds, but all I've found is overpriced junk. I would even consider rebuilding an older unit, but what I've looked at has only been good for scrap. So, that is why I'm looking at this option. Just not sure about the three things I've questioned......................Scott

[ken98k]

Thanks for the ideas, but I have been watching all of those as well as running adds, but all I've found is overpriced junk. I would even consider rebuilding an older unit, but what I've looked at has only been good for scrap. So, that is why I'm looking at this option. Just not sure about the three things I've questioned......................Scott

 

Here's a link to check out small lathes.

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Info/minilathe_compare.php

 

[farmall]

Another link. Check the reviews...

http://www.mini-lathe.com/

[z1r]

My advice, buy the biggest lathe you can afford or have space for. As for chambering speeds, call Manson or Kiff and see what they say. you'll find they recommend tripple digit speeds. Where slower speeds come in real handy is for threading at 10 or 12 TPI. But, even at 60 RPM on my old South Bend, I found it easier to thread by hand since it didn't have a thread dial. I left it engaged and ran the chuck by hand. Not a big deal.

[donmarkey]

I got the dc motor option on mine when I bought it and am glad I did, with speed reduction pulleys I can get it down to about 30 rpms and still have some torque. What I regreat doing is getting one with only 24" between centers, I have to do most barrel work thru the headstock instead of between centers. It would be nice to have the option, at the time I didn't think it was worth an extra $800 to upgrade to 36".

-Don

[scott63]

I got the dc motor option on mine when I bought it and am glad I did, with speed reduction pulleys I can get it down to about 30 rpms and still have some torque. What I regreat doing is getting one with only 24" between centers, I have to do most barrel work thru the headstock instead of between centers. It would be nice to have the option, at the time I didn't think it was worth an extra $800 to upgrade to 36".

-Don

I'm supposed to look at a cincinatti lathe this weekend, I'm told it is a 12 or 13x40 and that it is a three phase machine with a converter for single phase 110v. It has 4 different chucks, a bunch of tooling and has not been used in ten years, but it is in running condition. Guy is asking 2500.00. If I can arrange a look with a machinist friend I'm going to check it out, but a new 12x36 is less, just depends on what kind of tooling is included.....Scott

 

[z1r]

Included tooling is very important to consider. Tooling alone can cost you more than the machine.

 

 

Also, regarding my recommending the biggest machine you can afford, remember that we all had to start somewhere and that often meant with a machine that was smaller than we wanted. You can make do with a smaller machine. My old south bend and I cut many a barrel despite it's relatively smallish 7/8" bore.

 

[donmarkey]

Tooling is expensive, especially tool post holders and chucks. If you have time take a list of the tooling included and look up the cost. You'll be amazed how fast it adds up.

-Don

[hodgie]

i know this sounds weird, but i found a 9" south bend at a yard sale for $75. had it for a while, decided i couldnt do as much as i needed, so i listed it on ebay. the guy that bought it had a friend that had 13 x 40 rockford. bought it for $500, with a ton od tooling. sold the south for $400. not a bad break. ive found getting the word out to friends has worked wonders for me. there are tons of auctions in my area, sometimes they really work out.

[milsurpcollector]

Scott,

 

What state are you located in. Some states have more machinery available that others.

 

If you want to chamber a barrel blank in the lathe you need a spindle bore at least 1.2 inches

 

I know its discoraging. I save for 2 years before getting the Grizzley 12x36.

 

I bought a Sheldon lathe made in the 1950's for $400 cleaned it up and sold it for $700.

 

I sold it because it was worn out which I didnt know when I got it.

 

I reccomend a new Grizzly 12-36 or similar or a quality used machine with at least a 1" spindle bore.

 

Here is a used machinery dealer that has some good stuff if you live nearby

 

Not a huge operation and you can run the stuff before you buy it

 

http://www.lostcreekmachine.com/

 

 

[albertashooter]

I own this lathe http://billstoolcrib.com/Lathbir1120.htm which as you can tell is the same as the 10x22 with about 5 inches of bed. These lathes are a excellant value for a hobbyist as long as he is realistic in his expectations. What you are getting is a well engineered lathe design(cribbed from EMCO) that is sloppily executed.There is a reason they sell for 10% of what a 10 inch new Southbend does.IF you view these lathes as a kit that is not yet quite finished you are pretty close.If you believe that you should get a heavy 10 equivalent for a $1000.00 you are sadly mistaken.However once you get one tuned they are capable of really fine work.A friend of moine has a 9 inch southbend and as they sit mine is a better lathe, all due to the time I spent on it.

If you get one or even now ,go to yahoo groups and join the 9x20 and the 9x20(2) groups and read all the files there, especially the rebuild manual.also check out Steve Bedairs lathe pages. The 9x20 series lathes are the same basic design and share the same values and the same flaws.The biggest flaw is the componnd clamp.If you buy this lathe check out the john pitkin(iI think that is right) in the 9x20 groups file page. I made a similar design and it was a massive improvement. The upside to doing that wosk is you will really learn your lathe in a way many operators do not.

Enough size is always a problomatic decision with a lot of factors to consider such as available room,cost, power requirements and supply and ability to handle the weight as well as what you mean by gunsmithing and the work you intend to do and where your interests take you.

with my lathe I can easily mount a #5 contour through the headstock(that is the biggest I have done. how much bigger I could go I am not sure) so that that 10X22 should do the same. with the extra lenghth on mine I could contour a blank something the Griz could not.I surely could not put a blank through the headstock.

To thread to a shoulder I have made a hand crank that I now prefer to threading with power. Almost impossible to make a mistake.

As far as used lathes go, people seem not to realize that not everyone lives back east or near a industrial center where the used lathes seem to be.I live in southern Alberta and I search in vain for two years for a decent used lathe of decent size and on decent running order.If I had not purchased mine when I did It would now be 4 years as I still have seen nothing come up in a decent driving range.

 

[scott63]

I own this lathe http://billstoolcrib.com/Lathbir1120.htm which as you can tell is the same as the 10x22 with about 5 inches of bed. These lathes are a excellant value for a hobbyist as long as he is realistic in his expectations. What you are getting is a well engineered lathe design(cribbed from EMCO) that is sloppily executed.There is a reason they sell for 10% of what a 10 inch new Southbend does.IF you view these lathes as a kit that is not yet quite finished you are pretty close.If you believe that you should get a heavy 10 equivalent for a $1000.00 you are sadly mistaken.However once you get one tuned they are capable of really fine work.A friend of moine has a 9 inch southbend and as they sit mine is a better lathe, all due to the time I spent on it.

If you get one or even now ,go to yahoo groups and join the 9x20 and the 9x20(2) groups and read all the files there, especially the rebuild manual.also check out Steve Bedairs lathe pages. The 9x20 series lathes are the same basic design and share the same values and the same flaws.The biggest flaw is the componnd clamp.If you buy this lathe check out the john pitkin(iI think that is right) in the 9x20 groups file page. I made a similar design and it was a massive improvement. The upside to doing that wosk is you will really learn your lathe in a way many operators do not.

Enough size is always a problomatic decision with a lot of factors to consider such as available room,cost, power requirements and supply and ability to handle the weight as well as what you mean by gunsmithing and the work you intend to do and where your interests take you.

with my lathe I can easily mount a #5 contour through the headstock(that is the biggest I have done. how much bigger I could go I am not sure) so that that 10X22 should do the same. with the extra lenghth on mine I could contour a blank something the Griz could not.I surely could not put a blank through the headstock.

To thread to a shoulder I have made a hand crank that I now prefer to threading with power. Almost impossible to make a mistake.

As far as used lathes go, people seem not to realize that not everyone lives back east or near a industrial center where the used lathes seem to be.I live in southern Alberta and I search in vain for two years for a decent used lathe of decent size and on decent running order.If I had not purchased mine when I did It would now be 4 years as I still have seen nothing come up in a decent driving range.

Thank you for the input, I will look up that sites, if nothing else I am sure to learn some valuable information. As I have not looked up the site yet, are you saying that you can add length to the bed of your lathe but not the 10X22 or 11X26? Thanks again..............Scott

 

[albertashooter]

Sorry I was not clear. I was trying to give you some idea of your lathe capabilities.As the 10x22 has the same 1 inch bore as my 11x27 it can mount the same barrel contours through the headstock. My lathe though is long enough to contour a 26 inch barrel blank. The 10x22 could only do a 22 inch blank. That is what is what I was trying to say.

To expand a little on threading and chambering capability, I think I could with the use of the steady rest and a little set up handle a contoured blank that was 1 inch in diameter 16 to 20 inch from the chamber end.I hope that makes sense. The range is caused by the reamer length difference in different cartridges. with the 10x22 subtract 4 or 5 inch from that mearurement

On the other hand a 12x 36 will do almost any job that a gunsmith would want to do.

[scott63]

Sorry I was not clear. I was trying to give you some idea of your lathe capabilities.As the 10x22 has the same 1 inch bore as my 11x27 it can mount the same barrel contours through the headstock. My lathe though is long enough to contour a 26 inch barrel blank. The 10x22 could only do a 22 inch blank. That is what is what I was trying to say.

To expand a little on threading and chambering capability, I think I could with the use of the steady rest and a little set up handle a contoured blank that was 1 inch in diameter 16 to 20 inch from the chamber end.I hope that makes sense. The range is caused by the reamer length difference in different cartridges. with the 10x22 subtract 4 or 5 inch from that mearurement

On the other hand a 12x 36 will do almost any job that a gunsmith would want to do.

 

So this sounds like it is the same as the 11x26 unit from Grizzly. I noticed this in the Grizzly add, "Feeds and threads to the left only." Is your lathe the same as this? Is this some kind of disadvantage? Again, my immediate plans are to face actions, clean up bolt faces and chamber/thread barrels. After yet another week and looking at three more junk used lathes I am leaning towards this one due to price and space. With the prices people want for total junk, I have no doubt I will be able to sell a used grizzly for a minimal loss and put that money into a larger lathe when I'm ready. Thanks again.........Scott

[albertashooter]

The feeds only to the left is only a disadvatage if you need to cut left hand threads which is a pretty rare thing.If you ever need to, it is pretty strait forward to build a tumbler reverse to allow you to be so.I built a tumbler reverse for mine and only used it once.

My lathe is essentially the same as the Grizzly except for one item.The Grizzky uses half nuts for threading and a worm gear set-up for the power feed. My lathe uses the half nuts for both with a different gear set-up for the power feed.I choose my lathe for this reason with the reasoning that if a lathe is going to be inexpensive that simplicity means less to go wrong and less things to have to aline yourself. Also the worm gear set-up need a key way machined in the shaft and these lathe a infamous for the level of deburring that the threads need were they meet the hey. Your choice but I think I made the right one although I have nothig to compare to.I have ordered extra gears from Grizzly and they fit right on.I obtained the parts manual forn Griizzly and even the part numbers are the same for each machine.

either lathe would easily handle the list of jobs you mentioned within the barrel size limitations I had previously listed.

One other point is that neither lathe has power cross feed. I do not feel that this is a major item and would not be used in the jobs you list gut I fely I should mention it.

Also for the record, these are the tune up items I had to perform on mine

Aline the three way. Mine came wobbled by at least .1 inch. 45 minute job

Aline the feed screw. 1 hour

make a new feed screw pin 30 minutes

I think that is all that I did that was truly necessary. I built a lot of my own tooling such as a quick change tool post system, boring bar holders, Dremel holder etc but a lot of that was not necessary as such but makes that lathe mors convinient to use and is, I feel a good way to learn and get confortable with your lathe.

 

http://www.bedair.org/9x20.html

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/9x20Lathe2

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/9x20Lathe/links

 

I have include some links to the web pages I had previously mentioned in case you had trouble finding them. I would especially check out the rebuild manual and the tricking out manual in the files of the 9x20 lathe2 site . a ton of good info in there.Please feel fre to contact if you have any more questions.

 

[albertashooter]

Man, but that was a nasty post in terms of spelling, grammar, etc. My old English teachers must be blushing at the moment.I really need to drink my morning coffee before I start typing.

[scott63]

Man, but that was a nasty post in terms of spelling, grammar, etc. My old English teachers must be blushing at the moment.I really need to drink my morning coffee before I start typing.

 

Thanks a million for the information. Guys like you make things a lot easier for guys like me. Again, thanks for taking the time to explain things to a complete novice. I work in the HVAC field and now I know what people mean when they thank me for explaining how something works......................................Scott